This is based on a quote “look at new opportunities to expand trade” and a tweet “California is here and ready to talk.” How definitive do those two things sound? How definitive does Newsweek’s title sound?
Newsweek is a gossip rag.
Newsweek is pretty close to a tabloid these days. They are a tad better than the NY Post, but not by much.
Im not an American but can they actually do this legally?
I mean, I guess we’ll find out together
Legally? No. But you can’t secede legally either so there is a fuzzy line there somewhere should they start down that road.
Holy shit, my prediction model forecast this. 🍿 This is actually a major step toward derailing this coup.
Or starting a civil war.
Glad to hear, im Canadian and i have no problem buying American products from certain states.
I do. Get fucked, California. Fix your shit instead of working around it.
Trump took 38.3% of the vote in California. Is that who you want to do trade with?
Thats way less than most places in the US and less than fucking doug ford got in ontario. Less than Pierre was polling canada wide too. So yeah, I’d rather trade with them than say fucking alberta which is also way higher conservative poll numbers.
If you prefer to trade with California rather than Alberta, you basically have a brain maga.
In what way? Alberta is politcally basically the polar opposite to my beliefs, and is holding the entire country back. California is still not nearly left enough for my tastes, but aside from some outlying rural areas generally is much more favorable to my political views. With the exception of trade barriers and the fact that money going to california still impacts the US GDP, generally speaking Id rather give my money to people with similar beliefs as myself, especily if those people are trying to take a stand against trump/other fascist politicians and not licking their boots and huffing oil fumes like danielle smith.
38.3% of voters.
Not 38.3% of the population.
Pretty significant difference.
Which is not a majority, there’s more blue voters in Texas than Republicans in California.
Secede and then we can trade :)
If they secede you will definitely not be trading with either half for a long time.
Better than the current situation honestly. Both being preoccupied is better than Trump’s admirations of Canadian minerals
Not if you get all the nuclear fallout.
I think I’d rather be nuked than be lead by the orange man ngl
I doubt that’s true
I don’t know if you understand the pettiness and absolute disdain of the idea of being American that Canadians have. I live in Ottawa so I would be in the city that gets nuked if it came to that
Good. There is no point in being part of a government that doesn’t believe in governance. Here’s hoping that other Blue States join a compact with California.
Succession! And we’re taking Hawaii Oregon and Washington. We can trade with the EU and Canada. Maybe we can join the EU
If we’re fixing America’s beshittlements, can we restore the Hawaiian monarchy?
Yeah that seems fair. Can you guys take care of zuck and Ellison? ……I’m thinking sewer slaves would be best after seizing their assets of course
Or at least let Hawaii be independent again and let the people of Hawaii decide what they want. Too bad they don’t teach the history of what American corporations did to destroy Hawaii and how the US government helped overthrow a friendly foreign nation for American oligarchs to rule.
It’s too bad Utah and Nevada are between Colorado and California…
Kudos to California. The neo-Nazi filled MAGA is all about state rights and I hope they tell California to secede.
Hope this falls through. Any trade deals that allow the US to circumvent Trumps policies and thus keep his regime going is bad. The big crash needs to happen before people are motivated to fight back. The slow frog boil is what led us here to begin with.
This IS what fighting back looks like. It takes many forms.
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wanna join EU? ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
Already looking into it…
It would be ironic if businesses come back to California because of the tariffs.
Last civil war was about state rights to own slaves. Now its state right to avoid trade distribution?
My god the writers need to be fired.
And big money in politics. I’d argue Citizens United was the Dread Scott of our time.
Unfortunately, there have been a lot of Dred Scotts of our time.
Dobbs, Trump v Anderson, et cetera.
Fair point Trump v Anderson for sure
Turmoil has engulfed the United States of America. The taxation of trade routes is in dispute.
How 'bout religious awakening against trump?
Isn’t it for trump?
If Trump thinks he’s above the Constitution why can’t a state?
No, there is legal precedence for this
Under NAFTA states could impose their own tariffs because NAFTA was a Federal agreement and countries would have to negotiate free trade with individual states
This is just the reverse of that
As a non-American, the more i learn about US states, the more I realise that the country is more like a reluctant confederation than an actual unified country.
Yeah, it made sense when a horse was the fastest way to travel over land. These days? We’re stuck with a ridiculous government structure designed when no one knew how democracies worked.
Amen to that. It’s very stupid and backwards, but a whole lotta idiots think that the founders were inspired by their god (Jehovah/Yahweh/Allah) and that this kind of thing was handed down on stone tablets.
It’s very much like the EU and always has been. Everything makes a lot more sense in that POV.
It tore itself apart in a civil war 72 years after its constitution was written, and the only reason why it didn’t happen again was because it got fat off of being the only power left standing after the world wars.
Well it won’t be after the next one!
Also the economic restructuring by both President Roosevelt’s. I suspect the US would’ve collapsed by the 50s without either of them.
The whole “no legal precedence”. Has been a thing for a few years now. We have what used to be called chaos nowadays.
Here we go, dissolution of the U.S. is starting. It’s a slow roll, but i think that’s where we are headed
Well the south finally will get to leave the union and form florida-man-istan, jesus-wasteland-istan and all-hat-no-cattle-istan. Good luck to them. We should have a going away party before we put up a wall to keep them from trying to get back in.
Why not let them back in? There’s some good people in the red states; it’s a shame we can’t easily relocate all of them.
…we’ll have to check their voting history first.
I would love to visit the country of California.
Sadly it’s a near inevitable outcome of an overly powerful Federal Government attempting to deal with a population this large. The more powerful the Federal Government gets the less able it is to balance the different desires of its citizens and the less popular it becomes.
The solution was to NOT have such a powerful Federal Government but we tossed that out the window around somewhere between 1900 and 1920. It may not happen now over this but the clock is ticking and it’s going to happen at some point over something.
It will be terrifying and terrible when it happens.
Unfortunately, we keep giving a small amount of people a lot of power. The cons have way too much representation in relation to their numbers. The other huge problem is that we have a system of legalized bribery, which is just insanity.
A lot of this could be fixed by reforming the senate which is a big part of why that will never happen.
Agreed the problem was baked in during the Ohio Compromise and at other times, it has nothing to do with population size because we’re talking about a small number of elites, not popular will.
The US has been there before with the Nullification Crisis of 1832. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_crisis?wprov=sfla1
I guess history really does rhyme.
been thinking and saying for years that we’re on the path to a soviet style balkanization. just wasn’t sure what would be the spark. this certainly smells like one.
If Texas somehow joins California, were fucked
I think it would be much more likely for the west coast as a whole to split. WA, OR, CA
I could also see Nevada, Arizona, and maybe even Idaho joining. Though Idaho would probably need to have it pointed out that they’re fucked without the other western states.
Suck it, Manifest Destiny!
Texas? Unlikely
Will it be California first? Or maybe Alaska? Hawaii? We know one’s gonna try and split, just not which.
Cheeto will ‘gift’ Russia Alaska for its help with Greenland
We’ve been heading there for a long time and much of the rest of the world has been feeding into the two-sides divide. It’s easier to see when you already loathe both sides for different reasons. But the US has been a powerhouse many would love to see taken down. Generations of work towards that are paying off, and the US working class will suffer the most.
Unfortunately this runs into constitutional problems. While the spineless subhuman creatures in congress and the supreme court seem to have no problem with Trump and his administration ignoring the constitution I fully expect them to come down hard on any state that does so (at least in cases that go against Trump and his policies).
The article states California is negotiating with other countries to exclude California from those countries’ retaliatory tarrifs on US goods.
There’s nothing the federal government can do about that.
The Trump administration has demonstrated that the constitution doesn’t really matter. Why keep pretending like this is some sort of sacred immutable text? The spell has been lifted.
Just because Trump and his goons are ignoring it doesn’t mean his cronies in congress and the supreme court won’t still use it to attack anyone they want to.
yes, without any shared understanding around whether we enforce all laws or just some, law books are just reems of scratchy toilet paper. So are everyones holy books, and any international agreements we have.
Trump doesnt care about laws and law enforcement has openly hated the public for a long time. Their oaths to serve the law are a vanity that they jettison whenever its convenient.
And Biden/Harris violating god knows how many genocide and arms laws for zionist $ and then losing the election and support across every voting demographic didnt help matters. I wish I could go back in time to the day Obama picked Biden as his running mate and shake Obama until he picks someone else.
They could implement this by just not charging the duties at the ports in California and see who blinks first.
Do they have control over that? I assumed that was handled by feds
Federal and local government are likely both involved. With the doge cuts, who knows how many boots they actually have on the ground for this these days?
Don’t have to care about being unconstitutional if you’re not part of the union.
That’s great in theory but just as unrealistic in practice for California as it always has been for Texas. The single biggest stumbling block for any state to leave the union for any reason is the military. Most of the other problems can be resolved within the borders of the state, but the disposition of existing and theoretical new military hardware, personnel, and bases will always be a sticking point even assuming the federal government and the other states are willing to let them leave.
Any attempt to leave the US that has any hope of succeeding would be a very long and protracted process that would make Brexit look breakneck in comparison. We’re talking at least a couple decades at a minimum.
It’s either that or another civil war and that has so many variables I’m not sure anyone has any hope of predicting how that would turn out.
Water is more of an issue than the military. The US relies heavily on California for food so that would be a bargaining chip.
Economics in general. California is responsible for a significant chunk of the entire US GDP as well as being one of the primary shipping hubs. My point was more along the lines that these other problems are tractable, you could for instance negotiate trade deals between the rest of the US and California. The military on the other hand is a much tougher problem akin to unscrambling an egg. There’s no obvious way to disentangle California from the greater US military.
Any military option automatically removes any economic benefits that could have been possible in peace time. As soon as any conflict appears, everyone will spend more money on fighting, defending that in saving or creating profit. No matter who may “win”, everyone will lose and it would take decades to recover from it.
Did you mean to respond to someone else? This seems like a bit of a non-sequitur from my comment.
That’s how you get invaded by the military
Thankfully CA can fund its.own military once we no longer need to send charity to all the red states with dirt for an economy. Actually, our police forces in the state routinely spend more money than entire foreign militaries. I’m sure with a couple trade deals and strategic defense pacts that California can easily become it’s own country.
California’s food industry relies heavily on water from out of state, if those rivers dried up because flow got restricted to a trickle, it would be bad for their industry. None of this would happen without violent conflict though. Remember when the north burned the south to the ground? That is our historical precedent for how to respond to secession.
Much of the agricultural land would be fine. However the population centers in SoCal would have to make drastic cuts without the Colorado River.
I could see Oregon and Washington State throwing in with Cali, giving all of them a direct line to nice fresh Canadian Rocky BC Springs because we up here in Canada would be an instant ally of any states that broke off.
You cannot get water from southern Oregon into California by any practical manner. Same as the person you replied to, the Central Valley and coastal regions are inaccessible except from the Sierra Nevada or Colorado River.
Most of Oregon hates Portland these days, and I grew up in Portland. But I don’t think secession would be up to a vote, it would be decided by violence like it always has been. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be successful, but I think Portland would still be burned to the ground.
That’s always been the case that the rural backwater hillbilly sister-fucking areas hate the cities. The same is true in California. But it doesn’t matter because there are more people in the cities so they have more power so the yokels can’t do shit.
California is at the forefront of water conservation recycling in the US, and supports energy self sufficiency. The water issue is a problem, but not nearly as big as you might think. The state and water districts regularly fund new technologies and invest in storage. It would suck for a while, but in the long run, freedom from federal system might actually speed up changes that need to be made anyway.
We could do without almonds and wine. The US has more than enough soybeans and corn and wheat and potatoes go around. Nobody is going to starve without California’s agriculture.
Why are you growing water intensive almonds in what should be a desert anyway?
Most vegetables and fruit not imported from Mexico are grown in California. Enjoy your scurvy.
That’s the problem … if you are damned if you stay and damned if you leave … everyone starts weighing the options of either situation
The choices for staying become … stay and beholden to federal government that ties your hands, manipulates your economy and uses you for their benefit while never allowing you to do what your people want for themselves
or … secede and fight a political, economic and possibly even a military conflict to decide your own future
either options is terrible in the long run (if things continue as they are) but staying means things stay indefinitely terrible while seceding gives a higher chance of political autonomy.
If you’re going that far, why wouldn’t you want the other states? Just take over the whole government instead of trying to secede.
Civil war it is.
Seems like it would be easier to untangle from the U.S. military if the California populace had access to… something… maybe something that throws metal really fast? Idk
The single biggest stumbling block for any state to leave the union for any reason is the military. Most of the other problems can be resolved within the borders of the state, but the disposition of existing and theoretical new military hardware, personnel, and bases will always be a sticking point even assuming the federal government and the other states are willing to let them leave.
I mean it’s California. At that point just get a few neighboring states on board, take all the military hardware and shit and be like “Wanna go to war over it?”.
Republicans would absolutely love it if the most populous state that consistently sends huge numbers of Democratic representatives to DC was out of the picture. You think Democrats can’t do shit now, see what happens when you lose 40+ democrats from the House.
Won’t matter to me. We’ll leave to US to the Republicans.
Yeah, I’m not cool with leaving my friends and family to just die because they don’t live in CA.
That wouldn’t be happening because they don’t live in CA, it would happen because of Trump who exists in this role whether CA leaves the union or not.
Do more democratic Senators and Representatives do anything or not? Because 6 months ago it was vote blue no matter who, now suddenly it doesn’t matter if we jettison 2 Democratic senators and 40+ Democratic reps as long as you get yours.
The “vote blue no matter who” people were just “blue MAGA” folks trying to justify their support of genocide and those senators and reps along with the DNC leadership are now happily sitting on their asses while Trump’s power goes unchecked, so who cares whether they keep their titles? It’s not as if they’re actually using their positions to fight back. They’re just acting as controlled opposition.
Tell them to move.
Yarvin’s technobrocratic dystopia will have a bunch of these little states run by CEOs, and you wouldn’t have any voice in how it’s run, but you would be free to leave. Is that what you want?
“Sell your home and leave your jobs and maybe it’ll work out” doesn’t fly as well as you think.
Leaving the union? Yep you guessed it, unconstitutional. Secession would absolutely cause a war
Would you rather be complicit with fascism or fight for something better?
Also, you’re overlooking how much CA funds the rest of the nation. Flyover states do not function without funding from states like CA and TX. Take the west coast from the rest of the US and all that’s left struggles to qualify as third world lmfao
Yeah, if things were so bad that you were considering secession you might as well cut to the chase and just try to overthrow the US government because they would absolutely go after you hard
P.s. for any government officials who read the above comment, I’m not advocating for overthrow of your stupid little clubhouse, I’m pointing out why secession is a bad idea. Also, quit wasting my tax dollars looking at stupid shit.
So? It’s probably worth it at this point. I’d enlist.
Constitution? What constitution ?
What’s good for the goose…
If the union doesn’t provide any benefits and only costs money and prevents your state from functioning as well as it could and the union only makes solutions harder to solve … why stay in the union?
States stay together because of mutual benefit, not because of a document or promises.
And you could force a state to stay in a union by force but the cost of doing that far outweighs the benefits of a peaceful union.
Don’t forget they’re Democrats.
When the courts rule against them they’ll just meekly comply.
Is your state governor doing anything to oppose Trump?
If memory serves right the person you are responding to is probably British. Or at the very least I don’t think they are American, so don’t take much of what they have to say particularly seriously.
See my other response to peregrin5 but in addition you’re assuming rational actors all around. Actual reality is far more messy with many of those involved making decisions based more on feelings than any in depth reasoning. States stay together because there’s no obvious alternative. There’s no mechanism for a state to leave the union and doing so requires solving many problems that have no obvious answers.
Let the feds try to enforce it then. Texas immigration officers basically kicked the feds out when they started doing federally illegal shit, the federal government is barely held together these days. Force them to do something about it. If the flow of money between California and the US stops, California is the big winner so they have all the leverage in the world.
They did it during the pandemic, the union is quite literally dissolving before our very eyes.
