Really, the disqualification is probably better publicity than winning the award itself. If someone told me some vegan cheese won a “Good Food” award, I would assume it was related to eco- and social-consciousness. Learning that it was so delicious that the dairy industry schemed to take away the award tells me they’re afraid of the competition.
When Seiko beat the Swiss at their own mechanical watch accuracy competitions, they decided to cancel the long running prestigious competition entirely instead of make a better watch.
Capitalism breeds innovation!
Same with Japanese Scotch whiskeys absolutely running the table on ones from Scotland in competitions.
That’s partly because “Scotch” is a protected label. You can only call a Whisky Scotch if it was distilled with a certain technique, from certain grains, by certain companies, and matured in certain casks for a certain amount of time. All of it is regulated.
Japanese whisky doesn’t have these limitations. They can just do whatever makes it taste good.
If it doesn’t come from loch ness it’s just sparkling whisky
Scotch whisky must be made in Scotland. Similar story with bourbon, bourbon must be made in the United States. In many places you can follow the same recipes and processes as those products, but you may not label them with those terms.
Yes, but being made in Scotland isn’t enough to call your whisky Scotch. There’s a whole rulebook.
I’m an American, and we just don’t really buy into the whole “you must be from this region to be called this item”. All sparkling wine is champagne, all peaty whiskey is scotch, and all rice liqur is sake.
Oh she’s sweet but she’s Seiko, a little bit Seiko
Right, first thing I thought when I read this is “where can I get some of that ‘cheese’”
Yeah, well, you can’t. It’s only available to restaurants, and isn’t ready for retail. That’s one of the stupid reasons they can’t have their stupid award. Stupid sexy cheesish.
You’re right, but it’s understandable why the dairy industry shat themselves. They fucked up by allowing things to be named “oat milk” or “whatever milk”, so they damn sure aren’t going to let their “cheese” territory get encroached on.
The problem with restricting the use of the term “milk” is that people have been using the term “milk” to describe non-dairy liquids for longer than there have been trademarks. The word hasn’t ever been used exclusively to describe dairy.
Here’s a dictionary entry for “milk” from 1755:
https://johnsonsdictionaryonline.com/1755/milk_ns
Note that it includes almond and pistachio milks.
Milk of the poppy.
Milk of Magnesia
“Our cheese is so good they had to disqualify us” would be my new slogan so fast.
Wasnt that what they did with monty python’s holy grial when it was banned in norway*?
Let me see if I get this right: they get disqualified for containing an ingredient that hasn’t been certified as edible (kokum butter) and is usually used in cosmetics, and there is no evidence of Big Cheese being the reason for the disqualification, other than the owner of the company saying it.
But it is still Big Cheese’ fault?
It’s even worse than that. The makers aren’t even sure what was in their product to begin with.
Zahn says the kokum butter shouldn’t be an issue anyway: The company has since replaced it with cocoa butter, which does have GRAS certification. Initially, he told the Post the cocoa butter version was what he submitted for the awards, but after this story was published he said he determined that it was in fact the kokum butter version. (According to Weiner, Climax submitted an ingredient list that included kokum.)
So it might have been labeled with having kokum butter, it might not. Who knows? Seems to depends what answer is needed at the time.
Also,
Climax, it turns out, wasn’t just a finalist — it was set to win the award, a fact that all parties are asked to keep confidential until the official ceremony in Portland, Ore., but was revealed in an email the foundation sent to Climax in January.
If I’m reading this correctly, out of all the contestants, only they knew they won. Makes it a further stretch that it was a dairy company that “out” them as they wouldn’t have known that the vegan cheese won.
My guess for the change about GRAS was it most likely was assumed everyone would only submit GRAS items, and since someone broke that non-spoken rule then they had to make it a clarified rule. It is something you’d just assume everyone made sure their food was most or less FDA approved (which is a logical assumption).
The Washington Post article is much clearer about this whole issue (which is linked to in this badly written Boingbonk article.)
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WebMD isn’t the FDA, neither are the millions who eat it.
Only the FDA can say if something is GRAS or not. No one else matters in this context. And this contest wants to follow the FDA guidelines.
People used to use makeup with arsenic in it. I dont trust democracy on this one.
Here are more details (and more context is in the article):
"Someone had tipped off the foundation on something that disqualified Climax, Good Food Foundation Executive Director Sarah Weiner told the Washington Post. The complaint potentially arose from Climax’s use of the ingredient kokum butter, which has not been designated as GRAS (generally regarded as safe) by the Food and Drug Administration. However, Zahn told the Washington Post that the company has replaced the ingredient with cocoa butter, which was the version he said he submitted for the awards (although Weiner contests this).
The Good Food Awards also didn’t require GRAS certification for all ingredients back when contestants submitted their products — rather, the foundation added this to the rules later on. Zahn claims the Good Food Foundation never reached out to Climax to inform the company of the new requirement, although Weiner told the Washington Post it attempted to. SFGATE could not reach the Good Food Foundation for comment in time for publication.
“It would have been very easy for them to reach out to us and tell us about the new requirements,” Zahn told SFGATE. “… The thing that’s upsetting to me is that they were kind of unprofessional by changing the rules a week before the event.”"
https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/berkeley-vegan-cheese-good-food-awards-19431532.php
Kokum butter is edible and occasionally used to make chocolates and other confections.
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There are innumerable horror stories from cottage vendors bumping up against the money and strict gatekeeping of the nationally established conglomerates. This was in the US, but I know Canada also has, new, laws on the books to specifically prevent plant based cheeses from referring to their product as “cheese,” despite being the exact same process and a final product that you wouldn’t know side by side to the dairy version.
I’m not a vegan, but this is the just same ole regulatory capture bullshit that we’re seeing w ev cars, good imported rum, net neutrality and everything else
I’m closer to a carnivore than a vegan, but if something is good, it’s good. I’m not going to hate on something delicious because I feel threatened by someone else’s life choices.
Don’t worry, farmers; if I start eating vegan cheese I promise I’ll make up for it in beef consumption.
A lot of vegan “alternatives” are actually really good when you know what you’re doing with them. I will take tofu or mushrooms over meat any day tbh. Problem is some people don’t know that and will just prepare tofu like it’s meat, and then wonder why their tofu tastes like shit.
I tried tofu multiple times in different meals as a alternative for meat, but sadly all were disappointing. Do you have recipes that you can recommend? I am eager to find one.
Stir fry
A lot of times I think the problem is trying to substitute the protein in a dish with tofu or something vegan. It’s always going to be compared to the meat version. Should just try to find recipes that were tofu based to begin with, like mapo tofu.
I tried different recipes, but most of them were underwhelming, like the meal would be kinda the same without.
Stir fry how? Which type of tofu, pressed? And probably dipped in cornstarch?
Tofu doesn’t really bring taste, just texture so that’s kinda to be expected. That’s why I typically get firm or extra firm. I like those textures over softer ones.
I’m not sure what you mean by pressed as all tofu is pressed. That’s how tofu is made. I’ve never tried dipping it in cornstarch so IDK how that would turn out. I don’t typically do anything other than cut it up and cook it.
As for how to stir fry; I suggest looking that up. You mostly just use whatever veg and protein you want and add some stir fry sauce at the end. I haven’t really found one I prefer. I don’t do stir fry all that often. I really should since it’s super simple.
Im both a meat eater and tofu lover. Mapo tofu is probably one of my favorite dishes.
This is the recipe I sort of follow https://thewoksoflife.com/ma-po-tofu-real-deal/
They’re not mutually exclusive. For those too lazy to follow the link - traditional mapo tofu (like many Chinese tofu recipes) isn’t vegetarian . Tofu as a total replacement for meat is a Western idea - in most Eastern cultures that use it, tofu is just another ingredient and often used along with meat and animal based broths. The same is true of soy milk.
I just wanna try this cheese.
If only I could buy it.
Bro, insecure meat eaters are such pieces of shit.
You realize this wasn’t meat eaters but cheese makers, right?
I dunno, I think I’m on the side of “it might taste great but if it’s vegan it doesn’t meet the definition of cheese.”
There was a time when the “definition” of marriage was a union between only one amab and afab person. Definitions change.
If we can define plant products as milk then we could also define cows as plants. It would make vegan chili contests more interesting.
Good luck with that.
Likewise, good luck with vegan “cheese”.
Clearly it doesn’t need luck - it’s already winning awards despite underhanded tricks.
According to the article, they didn’t win.
EDIT:
Actually I guess they did, see below.
They were slated to win, close enough.
Bro, come on man. I don’t give a fuck what you call cheese but likening dairy to sexual preference discrimination is a bit much.
didn’t you know that vegans are an oppressed minority? the dairy industry is their oppressor?
There are forms of discrimination that happen to vegans, but more importantly, it’s the non-human animals who are being oppressed.
And I suppose it is up to the organizers of a contest over cheese to define the parameters of what constitutes cheese. But milk seems like a reasonable starting point. It is, after all, a dairy product.
Plant-based cheeses are allowed in their competition. They technically got disqualified because one of the ingredients is some type of fat that currently doesn’t have GRAS (generally recognized as safe) status. Except they only made it an issue after the plant-based cheese had won.
The whole resistance to reinterpreting culinary language is just nothing but anti-competitiveness.
That actually strikes me as a extremely reasonable justification for disqualifying it. The fact that they only noticed after it won is also not particularly suspicious.
Edit: how many alt accounts are down voting me for saying that you shouldn’t be allowed to enter in a food with potentially unsafe ingredients?
I guess vegan cheese has improved a whole lot since I last tried it.
Now if only they could make a vegan hot dog that didn’t taste god-awful…
Hot dogs and other sausages without meat will always be awful because the flavor and texture is what makes them work.
I am not a vegan or vegetarian. I absolutely love vegetarian and vegan dishes that are based on their ingredients doing their own thing.
I’m not convinced of that. At the end of the day, it’s a collection of mostly proteins arranged in certain ways plus water and salt. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that something like that can be replicated.
There is cartilage, fats, cell structure, and a ton of other things that make up the majority of meat that are extremely difficult to replicate for texture both when it is first cooked/heated/whatever and how it holds up as leftovers. Like different cuts of meat are basically the same parts but wildly different in taste and texture just like plants are basically the same except for all their differences.
Honestly I don’t get why so many people want a fake version of meat made out of plants when plants are pretty awesome on their own. grilled vegetables are fantastic! There are a ton of cultures with meals that are vegetarian or vegan and very complex in both flavor and texture because they played to the strengths of their available foods. Why bother with trying to make mediocre fake sausage when spring rolls exist?
I really like eating meat. It’s as simple as that.
Meh, blue cheese tastes more like mold than cheese, so I can see a vegan version being competitive when other vegan cheeses aren’t.
The dairy and meat lobbies are something else. It’s like smoking in the fifties.
It’s well established that there are serious health concerns when you consume animal produce (not to mention environmental and animal welfare ones), yet the industry keeps pushing back on plant-based alternatives.
I’ve heard of potential health issues from red meat consumption, but all animal products? That’s a first for me. Do you have any sources to share on this?
Technically it can’t be all animal products, since honey is about 98% sugar, and despite the hate campaign currently hitting carbs, sugar is not quite as harmful (in and of itself) as it’s made out to be.
But if we’re referring to all animal products in the sense of meat, dairy, and eggs - those three foods have nutritional properties that are all very similar and they do have some overlap in terms of health issues.
The biggest thing they have in common is being a package deal with high amounts of saturated fat and cholesterol. Heart disease is generally the industrialized world’s number one killer, and all three animal foods initiate the onset and progress the state of heart disease.
Then there are issues that are less settled, like to what degree do these foods cause various cancers?
And then this one is even more in need of further study, but there might be a link between these foods and autoimmune disorders.
https://www.pcrm.org/news/health-nutrition/meat-bad-you-and-environment
https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/processed-meat
https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/health-concerns-about-dairy
https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/health-concerns-with-eggs
I’m aware that there’s evidence of saturated fats having undesirable effects on your health. But plenty of meats are low in saturated fats (e.g. skinless chicken breast, or fish).
Relatively low if you compare it only to other meats or animal products. So while you can choose animal products that might progress these chronic metabolic diseases slower, you are still advancing them. But there are lots of factors that complicate things. For example the health impacts of animal products also depend on how you cook them, and what you eat them with. Cured meats are unanimously considered one of the worst things you can consume, right up there with smoking. Steamed fish would probably be about the least harmful (except that fish have some of the highest levels of bioaccumulated toxins and heavy metals). Actually, bugs are likely the least harmful, for those who are comfortable with that. Eating a source of fiber mitigates some of the harm from animal products as shown in this video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C08mqjMuwyY
Further complicating things is that single nutrients often behave differently depending on context. For example antioxidants other than some of the essential vitamins have never been shown to produce their purported effects outside of laboratory conditions, and some supplemented sources of antioxidants have even been shown to be a little harmful. But when we test the whole foods that contain those antioxidants, we get data like how increasing leafy green consumption has been correlated with a longer life expectancy.
And it’s similar for saturated fats and animal products. In the most established science on the matter you’ll see they don’t just talk about saturated fat alone - the science appears to show a relationship between the ratio of saturated and unsaturated fats consumed, particularly polyunsaturated fats. This book describes that science quite well-
https://www.redpenreviews.org/reviews/eat-drink-and-be-healthy/
But going back to that nutrients vs whole foods, there might be more than just the fats at play. This piece by Colin Campbell is a bit of a manifesto against nutritional reductionism, and suggests that the animal proteins themselves might play more of a role than we had thought:
https://nutritionstudies.org/is-saturated-fat-really-that-bad/
When you put whole diets to the test, what starts to become most consistent is how the most whole-plant-dominant diets by far achieve the most remarkable results. It’s apparent in the Adventist Health Studies, the Esselstyn Heart Disease Reversal diet, as well as Dean Ornishes full lifestyle intervention program. The latter two claim they can reverse heart disease, which is a controversial claim. More study is needed to prove whether that’s true or false, but regardless it’s still apparent that these fully plant-based dietary interventions do more than any others to restore people to good health.
And it’s a thing where science and personal experience match. If you check out the online whole-food plant-based support communities, you see people routinely report almost miraculous changes to their health and wellbeing in a matter of weeks or even days. It’s the kind of thing that once you experience it fully enough, you don’t want to go back.
https://adventisthealthstudy.org/studies/AHS-2/findings-lifestyle-diet-disease
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/departments/wellness/integrative/esselstyn-program
That is a rather clickbaity title, with some rage baity jpurnalism right there.
Holy shit, there’s a decent vegan cheese? I like my meat but I understand that the current status quo isn’t sustainable, and cheese is the number two thing the vegan industry has been struggling with making a good substitute for (number one being bacon.)
Yeah. I’m a vegetarian and the only things preventing me from being full vegan are cheese and ice cream. Once I can tackle those addictions, I’ll be very happy going full vegan.
My local store had five different brands of mint chip vegan ice cream. I’ve still only tried two and I think they’re great.
Yeah but it’s blue cheese
The best kind next to feta
The dairy industry is so pathetic.
Maybe. But nothing in this story suggests that as “the dairy industry” did nothing more than disqualify a cheese made using non-GRAS ingredients.
What’s pathetic is Big Vegan telling lies to try and discredit an ancient and valuable industry.
There’s nothing ancient or valuable about a relatively new industry that’s built on lies and unnecessary suffering and death for all.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=roIWg4ntj9k&pp=ygUTZGFpcnkgaW5kdXN0cnkgbGllcw%3D%3D
In the first 45 seconds of that video it says we’ve been consuming milk for 10,000 years - and yet you say it’s not ancient?
Compared to the other 90% of our evolutionary history? Not by a longshot.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/flashback-friday-the-problem-with-the-paleo-diet-argument/
I meant ancient as in ancient Greeks, not whatever obscure meaning of the word you’re using.
It was disqualified for having an ingredient that was not GRAS(generally regarded as safe). Even GRAS is a pretty low bar for food safety.
Huh, turns out asbestos is actually delicious too
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Web MD is crap. Also GRAS is a term that only the FDA can bestow. So yeah it’s not GRAS.
I’m surprised, I’ve had all sorts of vegan cheeses and they all taste like murder
The point of vegan cheese is that they most certainly do not taste like murder. 😁
thats like saying that the point of buying non nestle water is so that it doesnt taste like nestle water. (yes they all taste a little different, i mostly attribute that to secondary factors though)
Also you can make cheese without murdering cows im pretty sure?
also weird off topic question, im curious about this. But would consuming breast milk as a child be considered non vegan? I realize at this point it doesn’t really matter since you have no autonomy as a person, but i’m curious about the ethics in application to humans.
A baby human consuming their mother’s breast milk is vegan, because the mother is consenting to it. A cow cannot consent to being forcibly, artificially impregnated for the sake of producing milk. They don’t consent to having their horns chopped off. Nor do they consent to their children being stolen from them almost immediately after birth to be butchered for veal.
Yes plant-based cheeses are intended to mimic animal cheeses. But that doesn’t mean they have to be identical. Guilt puts a tint on the things we experience, and the way we feel can be considered a dimension of flavor. I would imagine a lot of people would argue they don’t feel guilty about consuming animals or their secretions, but that’s only because they’ve never experienced any time without that guilt. If you’re used to feeling a certain way every day, you start to forget about the feeling all together, even though it’s still effecting you in the background.
The idea with plant-based alternatives is to have all of the good properties of their animal-counterparts, and none of the bad. Cheese that’s free of the shame and guilt of causing unnecessary harm and suffering to thinking, feeling, sentient beings inherently tastes better.
A baby human consuming their mother’s breast milk is vegan, because the mother is consenting to it. A cow cannot consent to being forcibly, artificially impregnated for the sake of producing milk. They don’t consent to having their horns chopped off. Nor do they consent to their children being stolen from them almost immediately after birth to be butchered for veal.
i suppose that makes sense, so hypothetically if we solved all of those problems, it would be vegan? That sounds about right to me. And if it’s consent based, then what if the mother is forced to bear a child for example, surely that would no longer be vegan?
Yes plant-based cheeses are intended to mimic animal cheeses. But that doesn’t mean they have to be identical.
Yeah, but then you should probably not name it, or base it directly off of an existing cheese, in which case, fine by me. Don’t pull up with some shit that is explicitly not “blue cheese” and then call it “blue cheese” though. That’s just lying.
The idea with plant-based alternatives is to have all of the good properties of their animal-counterparts, and none of the bad. Cheese that’s free of the shame and guilt of causing unnecessary harm and suffering to thinking, feeling, sentient beings inherently tastes better.
i mean, i guess so, but then at that point we start getting into philosophy and nihilistic shit starts to crop up. But any improvement is a potential improvement i suppose. It’s incredibly hard, if not impossible, to live a truly “net zero” lifestyle. Even monks don’t do it, and they don’t do shit.
Only replying to your last point, and on that I only have to say that perfection is the enemy of greatness. The vegan philosophy is about doing the best we can, within practical limits. I can’t stop myself from breathing or my mere existence causing harm to beings I can’t even see, but doing more feasible actions like abstaining from animal consumption and electing not to purchase or use other animal products has substantial benefits that are felt.
yeah that’s fair enough. But then again it is called veganism for a reason. I suppose i would probably rather it be called something more broad, if it’s actually less about the actual consumption, and more about the morals and technicalities of how things work.
I do think the name itself is problematic. To anyone unfamiliar to the ideas, the word hints at something to do with vegetables, and yes that currently plays a role, but it’s not the point. It’s more of an animal rights milieu, and plants are only relevant at this point in time because it’s the least harmful way humans can sustain themselves for now. But that ignores that animal rights go far beyond diet, and that fact tends to get lost during any outreach since all most people are thinking about is the foods they dread to give up.
