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- cross-posted to:
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Norway, Ireland and Spain recognized a Palestinian state on Wednesday in a historic move that drew condemnation from Israel and jubilation from the Palestinians. Israel ordered back its ambassadors from Norway and Ireland.
It was a lightning cascade of announcements. First was Norway, whose Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre said “there cannot be peace in the Middle East if there is no recognition.”
Gahr Støre said the Scandinavian country will officially recognize a Palestinian state as of May 28. “By recognizing a Palestinian state, Norway supports the Arab peace plan,” he said.
Are Norwegian people pro-Palestinian or is this just the government? Any Norwegians here?
Norwegians are generally leaning pro-Palestine.
In a recent survey, 46% of Norwegians responded that they have more sympathy with Palestinians, whereas only 12% have more sympathy with Israelis. 32% responded that their sympathy with Palestinians has increased in light of recent events.
I can imagine several reasons why Norway is so different from for example Germany and France in this regard.
One is that we have a pretty well-organized civil society, including an organized Jewish community that is actively outspoken about Israeli extremism. My impression is that leading voices in the Mosaic community in Norway are frequently outspoken on the side of humanity.
Another reason is of course that we are still bitter about the collapse of the Oslo Accords. There’s simply no question Israel were the ones who killed it.
Even before this, Israel might have had less goodwill in Norway following the Lillehammer affair where Mossad murdered some random waiter who was on his way home from the cinema with his pregnant wife. One of the agents involved in placing 13 bullets in Ahmed Bouchikhi has since stated that they knew they were shooting the wrong man.
More importantly however, it probably relates to the story we tell ourselves as a nation.
We’re in all likelihood prouder of our war efforts than most of Europe, and certainly more than pro-Israeli countries like Germany and France. A lot of us (myself included) have family members who helped Jews flee the country following the occupation, at the risk of death penalty should they get caught.
The author of our national anthem took active part in the Dreyfus affair, among other things writing in a French newspaper that the French government was the “most shameless of any civilized people”.
Other important national poets dedicated their lives to giving Jews right to statehood, wrote poems urging people to wake the fuck up to the horrors of nazism, or died bombing Berlin.
These people, among others, make up the core of what we consider Norwegian national identity. As a result the average Norwegian might be less afraid of criticizing Israel than the average German (or French), as we consider ourselves to be firmly footed on the right side of history.
Of course, history is more complicated than that. A lot of us will simply not read Hamsun, and never mind that Jews had to be allowed into the Kingdom in the first place. History is complicated, but the stories we choose to tell and the ways we choose to frame them matters a lot.
Also, Norwegians are pretty left-leaning, and we put a lot of effort promoting ourselves as a peace nation. Probably doesn’t hurt either.
The Vikings really got their shit together. From raiding and pillaging to having one of the the highest standards of living in the world. If only more countries would follow their example!
They’re not vikings - that job description went extinct a long time ago. Rape is frowned upon in Norway these days, anyway.
The vikings got a bit of a bad reputation, probably in large part because they were not too popular amongst munks in England (who were avid writers). Sure, there was raping and plundering, but not necessarily so much worse than other peoples, and there was also trade and coexistence. We had particularly close relations to Scotland, and England is hardly in the position to accuse anyone else of plundering! ;)
Fun fact about the word viking: It literally means someone from a “vik”, which is contemporary Norwegian for a cove. More traditionally, it’s a dwelling by the coast, which explains the many -wich-towns in northern UK: The vikings would settle, usually for salt supplies, and name the place something ending with -vik.
So a Viking is not a job description as much as someone dwelling by the sea!
I’ll consider myself corrected.
It wouldn’t even be a problem if it wasn’t for all kind of neo-nazis trying to appropriate everything Nordic to fill up the hole where their “Aryanism” fantasies used to be. And they love those descriptions the monks left of the vikings… when it comes to the things neo-nazis admire it’s a question of the rape-ier the better - as long as the raping is being done by somebody white.
There is also the fact that thousands of Norwegians served in Lebanon for 20 years and witnessed IDF first hand. They took their stories home with them. I served in Kosovo and most of my colleagues had spent years in Lebanon. One time a very Christian solider watching the news in a joint TV room comments loudly and negativeo on palestinians in a news story and it almost came to blows. No one liked Hezbollah, but many hated the IDF. I heard the story of the Qana massacre from a Norwegian patrol that was present (the wiki article dosent mention them.) To hear the story how they had to shut the shelter door on civilians as there was no more room is enough to break your heart.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana_massacre?wprov=sfla1
Fuck IDF it took them less than 80 years to turn in to the SS
Don’t get freaked out, it’s platonic, but I love you. That write up was so detailed! I wish journalists read your notes.
Y’all got a ton of roundabouts on your roads. I love it! I’ve literally complained to my home town while they’re in the planning stage for 2 new traffic lights.
We have a large center of town roundabout and a few small ones. No idea why they won’t pursue that option.
amazing write-up, thanks!
Most people are anti genocide at the very least. The only person that I personally know that has vocally supported Israel was part of the political party FRP (think wannabe republicans/Trump supporters).
I don’t know the actual demographics, but I can say one sees a lot of Palestinian support in the streets. Many demonstrations and such. But I think the issue has gone well past the former xenophobic line. Seems to me many people I would have otherwise expected to be opposed to antizionists are still like, “maybe genociding children isn’t the right thing to do.”
Afaik both of them. It’s very good that they do this, more governments should follow, and more people should rally together to do this.
In my country on the other hand, the people are solidly pro-Palestine, but the government is way too Israel-oriented.
My own view is that ideally, both countries should be recognised and Israel should retreat from all West Bank and Gazan territories, as well as the Golan heights.