So it will just accomplish nothing, as people will work the same (more if we follow current trends) for $9.00 and hour instead of $12.00, but will have an extra $3.00 from taxes on the middle class (the rich will avoid taxes always).
If your goal is higher wages, then yes, it’ll fail to meet that goal. But increasing wages directly doesn’t really solve it because business owners would just increase prices in response. We saw just that when labor prices went up in the labor supply crunch due to COVID relief, and product prices followed.
But that’s not the problem this is trying to solve. UBI/NIT provide a base standard of living, so people are empowered to leave abusive jobs. Many just accept it because they need the money to survive, which means employers can get away with poor labor practices.
I think it’ll eventually lead to higher wages, but that’s not and shouldn’t be the point, or we’ll just end up chasing inflation.
where inflation is low and even decreasing, but things keep getting more expensive, jobs more and more scarce and actual value is ever smaller, while building true wealth through home ownership is ever more unreachable, while being poor is only more and more expensive and social mobility is at an all time low? Lol.
Pretty much every statement here is wrong.
Inflation is at the top end of normal (in the US). The target is usually 2-3%, and we’re at 3.3% annualized, so we’re back to normal. That means things are getting more expensive at an acceptable and desirable rate. Inflation was lower than the target for several years, then exploded in 2021 and 2022 (I blame COVID relief spending), and now higher borrowing rates brought it back to normal. Inflation measures haven’t changed for a long time, and changing them will just invalidate the usefulness of that data and just overfit to whatever we want it to show.
Jobs aren’t scarce, we’re around normal @ ~4% unemployment. We just got out of a labor crunch, so this is what “normal” looks like. Real wages are also still going up, just slower than the huge runup just prior to COVID (i.e. people’s incomes are increasing faster than inflation).
For housing, it’s a fantastic time to own a house, but a hard time to buy. There’s still an undersupply (due to shortages during COVID), high demand, and borrowing rates are around historical averages (but higher than recent history). This means mortgages aren’t particularly affordable, though since inflation is back to normal, those rates are being relaxed.
This is what “normal” looks like, we just came off a long bull run with abnormally low rates and low inflation, followed by a supply crunch. I expect to see more layoffs as employers adjust to a higher rate environment, but nothing that’s going spike unemployment.
If you don’t believe me, look at the data yourself.
Capitalists won’t like this
True, which is why we’re not doing it. It’s not because of inflation or that it’ll kill incentives to work, it’s that it’ll empower workers to leave abusive employers, and employers don’t like that. The opposition is largely FUD from the wealthy to try to kill it. And that’s precisely why we should seriously consider doing it.
dictatorship of the proletariat
Do you really want a dictatorship? All that’ll change is who the haves are (leaders of the revolution), the poor will still be poor, and they’ll have even less upward mobility.
Don’t just switch oppressors, fight to remove power from your existing oppressors. Revolution is a last resort, not an ideal.
Here’s real personal income (as in, inflation adjusted), which is up since the 80s. This isn’t specifically young people, but I’m happy to look at any data you have.
Also, the standard of living is considerably higher. Personal computers were unaffordable in the 80s, and now everyone has one in their pocket. Air conditioning was pretty rare, now it’s ubiquitous. The average person (yes, including the poor) are better off today in absolute terms than the 80s.
The thing that has changed is income inequality. So the rich are getting richer faster than the poor are getting richer, but both are getting richer.
What about the global evil of capitalism? Israel? Afghanistan? Iraq?
None of that has anything to do with capitalism. Capitalism hates war and prioritizes trade. What you’re seeing there is imperialism and cronyism, both of which are enemies to capitalism since they promote centralization of power in the government. Capitalists like free money though, so defense contractors will push for more conflict, but that’s not capitalism.
The neoliberal imperialism of the United States through it’s client-state in Israel alone is enough to wonder, whether this system should be left as-is.
It shouldn’t, and something like UBI/NIT is part of that. We should be stripping governments of control, and this gives people more options to fight against bad employers without having to go to the government and ask for more regulations, and regulations come with side effects that empower big businesses and increase cronyism.
If your goal is higher wages, then yes, it’ll fail to meet that goal. But increasing wages directly doesn’t really solve it because business owners would just increase prices in response. We saw just that when labor prices went up in the labor supply crunch due to COVID relief, and product prices followed.
But that’s not the problem this is trying to solve. UBI/NIT provide a base standard of living, so people are empowered to leave abusive jobs. Many just accept it because they need the money to survive, which means employers can get away with poor labor practices.
I think it’ll eventually lead to higher wages, but that’s not and shouldn’t be the point, or we’ll just end up chasing inflation.
Pretty much every statement here is wrong.
Inflation is at the top end of normal (in the US). The target is usually 2-3%, and we’re at 3.3% annualized, so we’re back to normal. That means things are getting more expensive at an acceptable and desirable rate. Inflation was lower than the target for several years, then exploded in 2021 and 2022 (I blame COVID relief spending), and now higher borrowing rates brought it back to normal. Inflation measures haven’t changed for a long time, and changing them will just invalidate the usefulness of that data and just overfit to whatever we want it to show.
Jobs aren’t scarce, we’re around normal @ ~4% unemployment. We just got out of a labor crunch, so this is what “normal” looks like. Real wages are also still going up, just slower than the huge runup just prior to COVID (i.e. people’s incomes are increasing faster than inflation).
For housing, it’s a fantastic time to own a house, but a hard time to buy. There’s still an undersupply (due to shortages during COVID), high demand, and borrowing rates are around historical averages (but higher than recent history). This means mortgages aren’t particularly affordable, though since inflation is back to normal, those rates are being relaxed.
This is what “normal” looks like, we just came off a long bull run with abnormally low rates and low inflation, followed by a supply crunch. I expect to see more layoffs as employers adjust to a higher rate environment, but nothing that’s going spike unemployment.
If you don’t believe me, look at the data yourself.
True, which is why we’re not doing it. It’s not because of inflation or that it’ll kill incentives to work, it’s that it’ll empower workers to leave abusive employers, and employers don’t like that. The opposition is largely FUD from the wealthy to try to kill it. And that’s precisely why we should seriously consider doing it.
Do you really want a dictatorship? All that’ll change is who the haves are (leaders of the revolution), the poor will still be poor, and they’ll have even less upward mobility.
Don’t just switch oppressors, fight to remove power from your existing oppressors. Revolution is a last resort, not an ideal.
Here’s real personal income (as in, inflation adjusted), which is up since the 80s. This isn’t specifically young people, but I’m happy to look at any data you have.
Also, the standard of living is considerably higher. Personal computers were unaffordable in the 80s, and now everyone has one in their pocket. Air conditioning was pretty rare, now it’s ubiquitous. The average person (yes, including the poor) are better off today in absolute terms than the 80s.
The thing that has changed is income inequality. So the rich are getting richer faster than the poor are getting richer, but both are getting richer.
None of that has anything to do with capitalism. Capitalism hates war and prioritizes trade. What you’re seeing there is imperialism and cronyism, both of which are enemies to capitalism since they promote centralization of power in the government. Capitalists like free money though, so defense contractors will push for more conflict, but that’s not capitalism.
It shouldn’t, and something like UBI/NIT is part of that. We should be stripping governments of control, and this gives people more options to fight against bad employers without having to go to the government and ask for more regulations, and regulations come with side effects that empower big businesses and increase cronyism.