Average hourly wage growth has exceeded inflation for 12 straight months, according to new Bureau of Labor Statistics data released this morning. This real (or inflation-adjusted) wage growth is a key indicator of how well the average worker’s wage can improve their standard of living. As inflation continues to normalize, I’m optimistic more workers will…
Growing up my family could pile into a van for a 2 week road trip or Disney vacation every summer. My grandparents were still working at that time, grandfather was a small business owner mechanic. Grandmother was a part time bookkeeper for a non profit.
To have that financial independence today, I would need triple my income, or my wife and I would need to double our income.
I figure a decade+ of real wage gains across the economy would approximate that. Maybe not for me personally, but for the average.
Looking beyond the average, production/non-supervisory workers—roughly the bottom 82% of the wage distribution—started seeing positive real wage growth two months earlier in March 2023, now 14 months in a row (not shown).
But keep replying please because I could put your exact comments in the COVID threads I was arguing in back then. It’s uncanny. It’s the exact same shit conservatives say when data doesn’t support their preconceived idea.
Afraidofzombies put it well
“I get what you are implying but it really isn’t relevant. Economics is just someone’s opinion at best, more often than not it is propaganda, lying with math. Not at all the same as the vaccine nutters or global warming denying.”
That’s crazy how the post is about income vs inflation and their comment is about “economics”.
The post is about numbers. Ones which, if they told a story of doom and gloom, you’d presumably completely agree with.
This is great stuff. Thanks for taking my original comment further than I thought it would go. Truly brings me back to arguing with conservatives about COVID numbers. I’m just disappointed there’s no equivalent here for walking into a hospital demanding to see patients.
Is there a place to put comments like this? Some kind of “how to lose an argument” community?
If you disagree with the numbers you can argue them coherently. Like, that’s how facts work. If there are issues with the data you make a compelling argument by pointing them out. Data doesn’t give a fuck about your feelings, refusing to contribute meaningfully to the argument doesn’t make you superior, it makes you look like an idiot, and doubling down on your refusal to engage meaningfully with the content makes you look even dumber.
You have time to hand wave away shit you don’t agree with but don’t have time to make.a cogent argument? You’re too good for.it.all when you’re called out for it? Is it maybe because.you don’t understand economics?
Because I sure as fuck don’t. But I do understand that its a real academic.discipline that involves lots of real math that I also.don’t understand. And while I take most.of what I read on the internet with a grain of salt people in this thread that do appear to understand some of those things are indicating this Dara is likely correct. And those arguing that it isnt don’t appear to be able to articulate why.
So my own conclusion is that there’s probably.something to this. But it doesnt really matter if there is or isnt, really, because I’ll never do anything with the info. Still, I choose to see this as a glimmer of.hope in troubling times.
Although if you are able to articulate your “all economics.is bullshit” theory, I’m pretty sure the many many doctorate holders in economics would love to have you destroy their field of study. You could usher in a revolution in economics. You could create whole new academic.disciplines, and do to.economics.what the scientific method did to natural.philosophy. In that case, don’t you have an intellectual duty to lay out.your argument?
This is cool and all but the post is about wage growth in the past 12 months.
It’s like if the post said, “did you know 1+1=2?” and you came along saying, “Yeah well 2+2=4”. It’s not a counter argument to the statement in the post title. It’s another statistic altogether.
Now go ahead and try to hand wave this way.
No, handwaving would be saying something like, “well I haven’t experienced this and also none of my friends have so it’s not happening”.
So, interesting stat which is relevant in a larger context but doesn’t mean the post is factually incorrect.
The first mate on a ship decided to celebrate an occasion with a “little” stowed away rum. Unfortunately he got drunk and was still drunk the next morning. The captain saw him drunk and when the first mate was sober, showed him the following entry in the ship’s log: “The first mate was drunk today.” “Captain please don’t let that stay in the log”, the mate said. “This could add months or years to my becoming a captain myself.” “Is it true?” asked the captain, already knowing the answer. “Yes, its true” the mate said. “Then if it is true it has to go in the log. That’s the rule. If its true it goes into the log, end of discussion” said the captain sternly. Weeks later, it was the first mate’s turn to make the log entries. The first mate wrote: “The ship seems in good shape. The captain was sober today"
Once you understand this story all of economics makes sense.
It is worth noting that the article itself does bring employment rate into it, stating that the reason for the real wages spiking like that did in 2020 was the lower wage employees leaving work, thus raising the average wage.
I haven’t seen the data on employment rate, but if the bottom end of employees are still not back to being as employed as they were at the start of the pandemic, then that may be keeping average wages higher than they’d otherwise be
I get what you are implying but it really isn’t relevant. Economics is just someone’s opinion at best, more often than not it is propaganda, lying with math. Not at all the same as the vaccine nutters or global warming denying.
The hole was really deep. And that inflation from Covid didn’t go away. Beating inflation now does not negate losing to inflation then. You have to beat inflation that much harder to both gain now and make up for previous losses.
ITT: I haven’t personally experienced it so this is not true.
I wonder if y’all realize how like conservatives you are sometimes.
Personal experience, speaking with the community and hearing their experiences mean nothing. Believe what the owner class says at all times.
The article is real and “shit still sucks” can both be true.
My thought upon reading the headline was “gonna need another 12 years before people start thinking we have turned the corner for the better.”
If an effect is that minor it could be statistical noise.
I just figured the hole is that deep.
Growing up my family could pile into a van for a 2 week road trip or Disney vacation every summer. My grandparents were still working at that time, grandfather was a small business owner mechanic. Grandmother was a part time bookkeeper for a non profit.
To have that financial independence today, I would need triple my income, or my wife and I would need to double our income.
I figure a decade+ of real wage gains across the economy would approximate that. Maybe not for me personally, but for the average.
This is hilarious because I’ll tell you the exact same thing I told conservatives during COVID:
I’ll take data over your anecdotes, thanks.
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Hmmm…
But keep replying please because I could put your exact comments in the COVID threads I was arguing in back then. It’s uncanny. It’s the exact same shit conservatives say when data doesn’t support their preconceived idea.
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Afraidofzombies put it well “I get what you are implying but it really isn’t relevant. Economics is just someone’s opinion at best, more often than not it is propaganda, lying with math. Not at all the same as the vaccine nutters or global warming denying.”
So no, it’s not the same and it’s not relevant
That’s crazy how the post is about income vs inflation and their comment is about “economics”.
The post is about numbers. Ones which, if they told a story of doom and gloom, you’d presumably completely agree with.
This is great stuff. Thanks for taking my original comment further than I thought it would go. Truly brings me back to arguing with conservatives about COVID numbers. I’m just disappointed there’s no equivalent here for walking into a hospital demanding to see patients.
deleted by creator
Is there a place to put comments like this? Some kind of “how to lose an argument” community?
If you disagree with the numbers you can argue them coherently. Like, that’s how facts work. If there are issues with the data you make a compelling argument by pointing them out. Data doesn’t give a fuck about your feelings, refusing to contribute meaningfully to the argument doesn’t make you superior, it makes you look like an idiot, and doubling down on your refusal to engage meaningfully with the content makes you look even dumber.
You have time to hand wave away shit you don’t agree with but don’t have time to make.a cogent argument? You’re too good for.it.all when you’re called out for it? Is it maybe because.you don’t understand economics?
Because I sure as fuck don’t. But I do understand that its a real academic.discipline that involves lots of real math that I also.don’t understand. And while I take most.of what I read on the internet with a grain of salt people in this thread that do appear to understand some of those things are indicating this Dara is likely correct. And those arguing that it isnt don’t appear to be able to articulate why.
So my own conclusion is that there’s probably.something to this. But it doesnt really matter if there is or isnt, really, because I’ll never do anything with the info. Still, I choose to see this as a glimmer of.hope in troubling times.
Although if you are able to articulate your “all economics.is bullshit” theory, I’m pretty sure the many many doctorate holders in economics would love to have you destroy their field of study. You could usher in a revolution in economics. You could create whole new academic.disciplines, and do to.economics.what the scientific method did to natural.philosophy. In that case, don’t you have an intellectual duty to lay out.your argument?
Unless of course its just hand waving bullshit.
Come on back when you have some data. Byeee
I like data as well.
https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-labor-force-participation-rate.htm
You will notice that not only has the US not returned to pre-housing crisis levels it hasn’t even returned to March 2020 levels.
Now go ahead and try to hand wave this way.
This is cool and all but the post is about wage growth in the past 12 months.
It’s like if the post said, “did you know 1+1=2?” and you came along saying, “Yeah well 2+2=4”. It’s not a counter argument to the statement in the post title. It’s another statistic altogether.
No, handwaving would be saying something like, “well I haven’t experienced this and also none of my friends have so it’s not happening”.
So, interesting stat which is relevant in a larger context but doesn’t mean the post is factually incorrect.
Once you understand this story all of economics makes sense.
It is worth noting that the article itself does bring employment rate into it, stating that the reason for the real wages spiking like that did in 2020 was the lower wage employees leaving work, thus raising the average wage.
I haven’t seen the data on employment rate, but if the bottom end of employees are still not back to being as employed as they were at the start of the pandemic, then that may be keeping average wages higher than they’d otherwise be
I get what you are implying but it really isn’t relevant. Economics is just someone’s opinion at best, more often than not it is propaganda, lying with math. Not at all the same as the vaccine nutters or global warming denying.
The hole was really deep. And that inflation from Covid didn’t go away. Beating inflation now does not negate losing to inflation then. You have to beat inflation that much harder to both gain now and make up for previous losses.