• whotookkarl@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    If the only point you’d contest is the after Crimea part Ukraine being too poor to do it I’d suggest allies that also signed the memorandum should be helping provide supplies and technical support. I don’t believe any further Russian invasion would have happened under a nuclear armed Ukraine preventing the current conventional war. I don’t think Ukraine owning nuclear weapons would result in a nuclear war because it’s the same deterrent preventing Russia from using them themselves today.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      I’d suggest allies that also signed the memorandum should be helping provide supplies and technical support

      Wasn’t a major Russian Causa Belli the prospect of a nuclear armed NATO on it’s border?

      • whotookkarl@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Ukraine wasn’t trying to join NATO before Russia invaded neighbors including Crimea in Ukraine, and they had signed the non proliferation treaty, including Russia, to not develop nuclear weapons as long as Russia did not invade their borders. If preventing a nuclear armed or NATO allied Ukraine was their goal and Russia invaded Ukraine twice in direct opposition to that started goal that means their stated causa belli was a lie.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          Ukraine wasn’t trying to join NATO before Russia invaded

          In the years before war, Ukraine’s leaders made enthusiastic pleas about their desire to bring the country into NATO, and the prospect rose in popularity in public polls

          Ukraine’s leaders in recent years have made enthusiastic pleas about their desire to bring the country into NATO — especially current President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who was elected into office in 2019.

          His election came on the heels of a move by Ukraine’s parliament to enshrine the goals of joining NATO and the European Union into the country’s constitution in September 2018.

          Three years later, Zelenskyy sat in the Oval Office, meeting with President Joe Biden during an official visit to the U.S., and he told reporters he planned to press his American counterpart on the question of Ukraine’s “chances to join NATO and the timeframe." No timeline or further commitment came out of the meeting.

          But while Ukraine’s leadership has directly pressed for membership since at least 2008, it hasn’t always been popular in the country.

          • whotookkarl@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Ukraine wasn’t trying to join NATO before Russia invaded neighbors including Crimea in Ukraine,

            2018 and 2019 were well after Crimea, and the popular opinion in Ukraine shifted towards NATO in 2008 because of the Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008, one of said neighbors.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              But while Ukraine’s leadership has directly pressed for membership since at least 2008

              because of the Russian invasion of Georgia

              Why stop there? Lets argue about the Winter War.

              • whotookkarl@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                Because the Soviet Union who is not Russia fought the winter war, and Russia’s government signed the Budapest memorandum in 1994.