Right, but it’s not really a matter of what did they expect from just standing idly by as Israel brazenly tried to provoke military responses fron Lebanon, Syria, Yemen and Iran, since we’re in this bizarre post-truth timeline in which governments and corporate media just blithely pretend that none of that happened at all
All of the versions of this story that I’ve seen so far either pass over Israel’s provocations entirely, or try to bury them by just mentioning them in passing, in passive voice, and with no assignment of responsibility.
The stock phrase is “Iran vows retaliation after the killing of…”
The mid-phrase shift from active to passive voice is propaganda 101.
Provoked by Iran? I think you should read some history dude. Nothing happens in vacuum and Israels occupation is the sole reason for 7. October. I do not agree with what Hamas did but thinking that anyone would just sit and watch their home be occupied is ignorant at best. The irony being that Israel funded Hamas. They can thank themselves for those deaths to be completely honest.
"Israel funded Hamas” has to be one of the most backwards takes I’ve seen repeated here.
By that you mean that Israel eased restrictions according to an agreed upon schedule approved by international facilitators, allowed access to more construction materials, and issued more work and travel visas to Gazans. In other words, exactly the things that Palestinian people advocated for.
Do your research. This has been a hidden secret in the international community for decades. Isreal did fund them to keep the tension high between them and the Palestinian authority. When even the foreign menister of my own country confirmed this I was really surprised as well. But nothing should really supprise anyone about this conflict. It’s in Isreals interest to keep this conflict on going.
I respect that you got another opinion but maybe you should look into it and see that it is true. I don’t spread misinformation, that is the worst thing I know about. I try to always have my fact straight.
If you take a moment to actually look into these claims that Israel funded Hamas, you’ll find that it’s exactly what I’m describing.
Please, send me a source that describes exactly what Israel did - not an out of context quote, not a vague accusation, but what specific actions or mechanism Israel used to help Hamas. You will find only actions that Palestinian advocates were calling for.
It’s easy to start from the point of view that Israel is bad and deserves everything that happens to them. It’s a lot harder to look at objective facts and think critically for yourself.
As I said, they allowed international aid, on an approved schedule. Or do you think that the ruling party of Gaza should not be allowed to move money they raised for the people of Gaza into the strip?
Hamas already raised the money and it was facilitated by Qatar.
Israel is criticized for keeping funds out of Gaza and for letting funds into Gaza? Does that really make sense, or is that what a pundit told you to think?
What? That’s not what happened in that article at all. These weren’t public aid funds being sent to Gaza intercepted by Hamas, or whatever you are trying to say. These were secret payments given to Hamas that Israel found out about and allowed anyway so that the terrorist group could be strengthened against the then legitimate government of Palestinian. Suitcases of cash aren’t for legit payments lol.
Israels occupation is the sole reason for 7. October. I do not agree with what Hamas did but
What kind of abuser rationale is this? “Look what you made me do?” That twisted logic is exactly what Israel is using to justify their rampage at the moment. Killing innocent civilians is not OK, full stop.
There sure is a place that popped up in 1948 that has carte Blanche to do whatever the fuck they want to surrounding areas because they have a trillion dollar war machine mommy that comes calling every time she hears baby cry foul.
I guess you skipped all that in your perusing of Wikipedia summaries.
I can’t speak for the other commenter, but I’m not naive enough to think conflict just appeared out of nowhere. It’s come from beefs between historic tribes and stretches back to before people wrote things down.
It’s more like “those cops were just regular people whose families were beating other people up, then someone with a lot more Big Sticks came over and told them they’re now part of a special group who are the only ones allowed to beat people up and gave them a shiny gold star plaque? to prove it”
Only instead of a gold star, it was drawing lines on a map and saying “this is yours, have fun”, and pretending to not see anything negative they do after that.
I’m with you on violence bad, but if you were to consider Nat Turner’s rebellion, where many enslaved Africans escaped their captors and murdered white Americans (including women and children), as justification for slave owning Americans being unjustly brutal towards Africans and prohibiting them from learning to read, most people would justly tell you to fuck off and say those people that thought they could own other human beings based solely on the color of their skin should be condemned for all eternity. Hell they might even say those Africans didn’t kill enough of those evil whites
I’d say, you’ll never achieve peace by attacking the other side, but you can only achieve peace if both sides want it. White Americans in the South during 1938 absolutely did not want peace with African Americans in much the same way Israelis don’t want peace with Palestinians today. It’s oversimplified but this feeling has always gone mostly one way. Black Americans have mostly just wanted peace, they don’t want revenge. The same goes for Palestinians. It’s truly amazing how hard it is/was for many white Americans and Israelis to learn and accept that fact.
If they were justifying slavery because a few dudes killed some kids?
Uhh… I don’t think you understoood what I wrote.
I’m specifically saying it doesn’t matter how many kids one mob of people killed in comparison to the sanctioning and proliferation of chattel slavery for the sole purpose of increasing profits for a few wealthy white men.
Personally, if someone told me ‘yeah, slavery was bad but there was this one group of slaves that killed a bunch of kids so actually slavery was kinda justified.’ Well, I’d have to disagree and I’d tell them to stop talking to me. And then I’d think what a … (censored so I don’t get banned)
Who the fuck said anything about a comparison? Killing children is bad. Full stop. Like seriously, just stop there. No comparisons, no deflections, no justifications. No other issues required.
Killing. Children. Is. Bad.
Ridiculous I have to spell that out, what the fuck is wrong with y’all.
Uh I did. That was the whole point of my comment. I made a comparison to the situation going on in Israel. Why did you reply to my comment if you don’t care what I’m talking about and don’t care to understand?
That’s a rhetorical question. I’m blocking you now because you’re being disrespectful and I don’t care enough to educate you or satisfy your need for attention
I’m with you on violence bad, but if you were to consider Nat Turner’s rebellion, where many enslaved Africans escaped their captors and murdered white Americans (including women and children), as justification for slave owning Americans being unjustly brutal towards Africans and prohibiting them from learning to read, most people would justly tell you to fuck off and say those people that thought they could own other human beings based solely on the color of their skin should be condemned for all eternity. Hell they might even say those Africans didn’t kill enough of those evil whites
I can understand killing their former owner, but not random civilians who had the misfortune of being born white.
Let’s not lose sight of the fact that Hamas tortured and slaughtered hundreds of random civilians at a music festival.
I agree, which is why you’ll note that I’m not defending Israel’s actions. I said they were entitled to do something, but not this. Keep swinging at that strawman, though.
I totally get that. I’m not saying it’s cool or anything. I’m specifically saying if we use that relatively minor **retaliation ** as justification to be 10x worse or 1000x worse then it almost doesn’t matter what the they did because it’s not even comparable.
I’ll be honest, personally, of all the American history I’ve learned I couldn’t care less about what the group led by Nat Turner did to the group literally led by the various presidents of the US. It barely registers. It’s more like random gang violence driven by ignorant, emotional passion, where as what Americans were doing was legit calculated genocide (destroying culture, in this case, since obviously they were still breading people for profit) - it was done methodically and done to maximize profits and political power.
I totally get that. I’m not saying it’s cool or anything. I’m specifically saying if we use that relatively minor **retaliation ** as justification to be 10x worse or 1000x worse then it almost doesn’t matter what the they did because it’s not even comparable.
I agree, and can’t defend what Israel are doing. The irony is that both sides are essentially doing the same thing that they accuse the other of doing. They are both hyper-aggressive, racist zealots. I don’t know what kind of “reset” could make it stop.
I’ll be honest, personally, of all the American history I’ve learned I couldn’t care less about what the group led by Nat Turner did to the group literally led by the various presidents of the US. It barely registers. It’s more like random gang violence driven by ignorant, emotional passion, where as what Americans were doing was legit calculated genocide (destroying culture, in this case, since obviously they were still breading people for profit) - it was done methodically and done to maximize profits and political power.
I’m not American and never heard of this incident until today, so I can’t provide an informed comment. I think I agree with your assessment in general, other than the killing of innocents. I understand why they did it but I can’t condone it.
They are not doing the same thing at all. One group is defending their home, trying to survive, living under an occupation with a horrible life, no state, no support, and are constantly losing their home, while the other side is spreading, taking their homes, and trying to do a genocide and prevent the other side from having a state. It’s two completely different things.
WTAF did they think was going to happen letting Israel act unchecked?
Launch attacks across borders and you fuck with sovereign territory and…checking notes… Those places have a right to defend themselves.
Right, but it’s not really a matter of what did they expect from just standing idly by as Israel brazenly tried to provoke military responses fron Lebanon, Syria, Yemen and Iran, since we’re in this bizarre post-truth timeline in which governments and corporate media just blithely pretend that none of that happened at all
All of the versions of this story that I’ve seen so far either pass over Israel’s provocations entirely, or try to bury them by just mentioning them in passing, in passive voice, and with no assignment of responsibility.
The stock phrase is “Iran vows retaliation after the killing of…”
The mid-phrase shift from active to passive voice is propaganda 101.
Well stated.
Israel wants the escalation
Netanyahu especially in particular.
Now if only US citizens are able to apply the same logic to guns…
“What did you think would happen by arming people to the point where there would be more guns than people in your country?”
Oh god here’s the clown car of obsessed single issue voters.
Speaking of, where’s “fuckcars” to try and make war in the middle east about bicycles somehow?
Lol bad take
Yes, how dare they retaliate to events provoked by Iran? They are going about it terribly, but they were entirely in their rights to do something.
Provoked by Iran? I think you should read some history dude. Nothing happens in vacuum and Israels occupation is the sole reason for 7. October. I do not agree with what Hamas did but thinking that anyone would just sit and watch their home be occupied is ignorant at best. The irony being that Israel funded Hamas. They can thank themselves for those deaths to be completely honest.
"Israel funded Hamas” has to be one of the most backwards takes I’ve seen repeated here.
By that you mean that Israel eased restrictions according to an agreed upon schedule approved by international facilitators, allowed access to more construction materials, and issued more work and travel visas to Gazans. In other words, exactly the things that Palestinian people advocated for.
Do your research. This has been a hidden secret in the international community for decades. Isreal did fund them to keep the tension high between them and the Palestinian authority. When even the foreign menister of my own country confirmed this I was really surprised as well. But nothing should really supprise anyone about this conflict. It’s in Isreals interest to keep this conflict on going.
I respect that you got another opinion but maybe you should look into it and see that it is true. I don’t spread misinformation, that is the worst thing I know about. I try to always have my fact straight.
If you take a moment to actually look into these claims that Israel funded Hamas, you’ll find that it’s exactly what I’m describing.
Please, send me a source that describes exactly what Israel did - not an out of context quote, not a vague accusation, but what specific actions or mechanism Israel used to help Hamas. You will find only actions that Palestinian advocates were calling for.
It’s easy to start from the point of view that Israel is bad and deserves everything that happens to them. It’s a lot harder to look at objective facts and think critically for yourself.
They literally enabled suitcases full of cash into Hamas from Qatar. And he’s said in public statements, it’s important to keep Hamas strong to balance the Palestinian Authority and prevent a Palestinian state.
As I said, they allowed international aid, on an approved schedule. Or do you think that the ruling party of Gaza should not be allowed to move money they raised for the people of Gaza into the strip?
Hamas already raised the money and it was facilitated by Qatar.
Israel is criticized for keeping funds out of Gaza and for letting funds into Gaza? Does that really make sense, or is that what a pundit told you to think?
Normally in football, they keep the goal posts still.
What? That’s not what happened in that article at all. These weren’t public aid funds being sent to Gaza intercepted by Hamas, or whatever you are trying to say. These were secret payments given to Hamas that Israel found out about and allowed anyway so that the terrorist group could be strengthened against the then legitimate government of Palestinian. Suitcases of cash aren’t for legit payments lol.
What kind of abuser rationale is this? “Look what you made me do?” That twisted logic is exactly what Israel is using to justify their rampage at the moment. Killing innocent civilians is not OK, full stop.
Okay maybe Israel should have not been doing that since 1948 then
You should take ab_intra’s advice and read some history. People in the middle east didn’t discover violence in 1948.
There sure is a place that popped up in 1948 that has carte Blanche to do whatever the fuck they want to surrounding areas because they have a trillion dollar war machine mommy that comes calling every time she hears baby cry foul.
I guess you skipped all that in your perusing of Wikipedia summaries.
I can’t take seriously anybody who throws around any single date as the beginning of conflict in the ME.
I can’t speak for the other commenter, but I’m not naive enough to think conflict just appeared out of nowhere. It’s come from beefs between historic tribes and stretches back to before people wrote things down.
It’s more like “those cops were just regular people whose families were beating other people up, then someone with a lot more Big Sticks came over and told them they’re now part of a special group who are the only ones allowed to beat people up and gave them a shiny gold
starplaque? to prove it”Only instead of a gold star, it was drawing lines on a map and saying “this is yours, have fun”, and pretending to not see anything negative they do after that.
Of course not, but there was a people that wasn’t in the middle east doing violence until that period.
Ooof you really went full Nazi on that one, eh? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews
I’m with you on violence bad, but if you were to consider Nat Turner’s rebellion, where many enslaved Africans escaped their captors and murdered white Americans (including women and children), as justification for slave owning Americans being unjustly brutal towards Africans and prohibiting them from learning to read, most people would justly tell you to fuck off and say those people that thought they could own other human beings based solely on the color of their skin should be condemned for all eternity. Hell they might even say those Africans didn’t kill enough of those evil whites
I’d say, you’ll never achieve peace by attacking the other side, but you can only achieve peace if both sides want it. White Americans in the South during 1938 absolutely did not want peace with African Americans in much the same way Israelis don’t want peace with Palestinians today. It’s oversimplified but this feeling has always gone mostly one way. Black Americans have mostly just wanted peace, they don’t want revenge. The same goes for Palestinians. It’s truly amazing how hard it is/was for many white Americans and Israelis to learn and accept that fact.
You need better friends if any of them condone the murder of children in any circumstances.
If they were justifying slavery because a few dudes killed some kids?
Uhh… I don’t think you understoood what I wrote.
I’m specifically saying it doesn’t matter how many kids one mob of people killed in comparison to the sanctioning and proliferation of chattel slavery for the sole purpose of increasing profits for a few wealthy white men.
Personally, if someone told me ‘yeah, slavery was bad but there was this one group of slaves that killed a bunch of kids so actually slavery was kinda justified.’ Well, I’d have to disagree and I’d tell them to stop talking to me. And then I’d think what a … (censored so I don’t get banned)
Who the fuck said anything about a comparison? Killing children is bad. Full stop. Like seriously, just stop there. No comparisons, no deflections, no justifications. No other issues required.
Killing. Children. Is. Bad.
Ridiculous I have to spell that out, what the fuck is wrong with y’all.
Uh I did. That was the whole point of my comment. I made a comparison to the situation going on in Israel. Why did you reply to my comment if you don’t care what I’m talking about and don’t care to understand?
That’s a rhetorical question. I’m blocking you now because you’re being disrespectful and I don’t care enough to educate you or satisfy your need for attention
I can understand killing their former owner, but not random civilians who had the misfortune of being born white.
Let’s not lose sight of the fact that Hamas tortured and slaughtered hundreds of random civilians at a music festival.
Maybe you don’t understand it, but that’s exactly what’s happening to the 15 to 25,000 children killed by Israel in retaliation for 7-Oct.
You: immediately loses sight
Sure, pal. One evil doesn’t justify another. Get some perspective.
I agree, which is why you’ll note that I’m not defending Israel’s actions. I said they were entitled to do something, but not this. Keep swinging at that strawman, though.
I totally get that. I’m not saying it’s cool or anything. I’m specifically saying if we use that relatively minor **retaliation ** as justification to be 10x worse or 1000x worse then it almost doesn’t matter what the they did because it’s not even comparable.
I’ll be honest, personally, of all the American history I’ve learned I couldn’t care less about what the group led by Nat Turner did to the group literally led by the various presidents of the US. It barely registers. It’s more like random gang violence driven by ignorant, emotional passion, where as what Americans were doing was legit calculated genocide (destroying culture, in this case, since obviously they were still breading people for profit) - it was done methodically and done to maximize profits and political power.
I agree, and can’t defend what Israel are doing. The irony is that both sides are essentially doing the same thing that they accuse the other of doing. They are both hyper-aggressive, racist zealots. I don’t know what kind of “reset” could make it stop.
I’m not American and never heard of this incident until today, so I can’t provide an informed comment. I think I agree with your assessment in general, other than the killing of innocents. I understand why they did it but I can’t condone it.
They are not doing the same thing at all. One group is defending their home, trying to survive, living under an occupation with a horrible life, no state, no support, and are constantly losing their home, while the other side is spreading, taking their homes, and trying to do a genocide and prevent the other side from having a state. It’s two completely different things.
The year is 2057. Israel sits upon the ashes of the rest of the world. “If only they had stopped provoking us,” it whispers into the emptiness.
I guess that’s actually Israel’s wet dream.