It would be a mistake to not realise that they operate in the same virtual space as profit driven corporations though. They should still be professionally run with proper pr and marketing. Whether that is volunteer led, or alternative funding like Wikipedia or charging corporate clients etc.
Personally, I’d like corporate integration to fund the free part, but with no additional benefit. Just the same access that private users get for free. Otherwise it’s a slippery slope.
Hard to regulate though. How woukd you verify, who would verify? Could be like fair trade products, whereby there is a certifying body. User instances could decide to only federate with corporate instances that are registered with this non profit. They would pay for their access, like Reddit is asking from their apps, except actually reasonable costs. This could be disbursed to large instances with over X amounts of users to fund their computing needs.
Given the fediverse is a not for profit, any advertising campaigns would have to be fronted by someone who wants to pay for it. It’s not that we can’t do advertising campaigns, it’s just we can’t use the money people dontate to keep the servers running for marketing, because people expect that money to be used in making sure the server exists into the future - it would have to be a separate donation soley for marketing it, or maybe some rich person could decide to pay for marketing in full.
On top of that, we can’t let sign ups exceed to amount we get from donations - that would kill the server or force the server owner to shut down sign ups and, worst case if they happened way too fast- the owner remove some of the more recent signups, which would reflect badly on said owner.
In other words, if you want to advertise it, go ahead but don’t expect anyone else to contribute cash to help as marketing a open and donation based system like this could have its consequences.
Oh, I completely agree. What I mean is that a not for profit can still live in the commercial world of it wants.
Not for profits still need stuff. Like offices or servers or staff. How the funding comes about without compromising the mission is the question.
Look at cancer charities fund raising. Look at Wikipedia. Look at Firefox.
The funding model doesn’t have to be the same for every instance. Some could be just volunteer funded or donated by the admins as a cost of their hobby.
However, the broader community will not tolerate a social media space that is not professionally run with uptime and lack of errors and downtime. The only way the commercial ones die is if the free ones are better. Look at piracy. It’s not a cost problem in music versus movies versus games, it’s a service problem.
I’ll agree with you that a server needs moderation or administration staff in proportion to its size. Wether those staff are all volunteers or paid depends on the overall budget of the server.
But I don’t think office space really makes any sense For a decentralized platform like this one - the only place that makes sense is for the actual lead developers of the software that the platform runs. And even then with the WFH culture of today I think even that is not likely to exist.
As for server administration, the most I could really see is a regular online meeting to keep interests aligned as well as a staff audit log for the server owner to review. And Lemmy already keeps a public audit log anyway.
As for your last point I wholly agree with you. The whole point of federated systems like mastodon and Lemmy is to move away from the for profit system so we can avoid enshittification. It’s meant to be a method of spreading the cost across multiple smaller nonprofit organisations. And hopefully we can avoid it and therefore make the platform better.
That being said, the only thing that prevents a corporate entity from joining in is the instances and their federation policies themselves.
The only other way I see parts of the fediverse become for profit is if an existing non profit turns for profit, which is really only a big deal if it’s one of the larger instances. And as for how the rest of the fediverse deals with that. Well it’s again up to individual server owners, and the collective decision they may or may not make.
I’ve always said a social system that isn’t socialised is not a social system - I mean it’s in the name! And the fediverse is really one of the first major attempts at doing that. Wether it lasts or not we’re sure to learn a lot and if it fails, we can take those lessons and try again.
It would be a mistake to not realise that they operate in the same virtual space as profit driven corporations though. They should still be professionally run with proper pr and marketing. Whether that is volunteer led, or alternative funding like Wikipedia or charging corporate clients etc.
Personally, I’d like corporate integration to fund the free part, but with no additional benefit. Just the same access that private users get for free. Otherwise it’s a slippery slope.
Hard to regulate though. How woukd you verify, who would verify? Could be like fair trade products, whereby there is a certifying body. User instances could decide to only federate with corporate instances that are registered with this non profit. They would pay for their access, like Reddit is asking from their apps, except actually reasonable costs. This could be disbursed to large instances with over X amounts of users to fund their computing needs.
Given the fediverse is a not for profit, any advertising campaigns would have to be fronted by someone who wants to pay for it. It’s not that we can’t do advertising campaigns, it’s just we can’t use the money people dontate to keep the servers running for marketing, because people expect that money to be used in making sure the server exists into the future - it would have to be a separate donation soley for marketing it, or maybe some rich person could decide to pay for marketing in full.
On top of that, we can’t let sign ups exceed to amount we get from donations - that would kill the server or force the server owner to shut down sign ups and, worst case if they happened way too fast- the owner remove some of the more recent signups, which would reflect badly on said owner.
In other words, if you want to advertise it, go ahead but don’t expect anyone else to contribute cash to help as marketing a open and donation based system like this could have its consequences.
Oh, I completely agree. What I mean is that a not for profit can still live in the commercial world of it wants.
Not for profits still need stuff. Like offices or servers or staff. How the funding comes about without compromising the mission is the question.
Look at cancer charities fund raising. Look at Wikipedia. Look at Firefox.
The funding model doesn’t have to be the same for every instance. Some could be just volunteer funded or donated by the admins as a cost of their hobby.
However, the broader community will not tolerate a social media space that is not professionally run with uptime and lack of errors and downtime. The only way the commercial ones die is if the free ones are better. Look at piracy. It’s not a cost problem in music versus movies versus games, it’s a service problem.
I’ll agree with you that a server needs moderation or administration staff in proportion to its size. Wether those staff are all volunteers or paid depends on the overall budget of the server.
But I don’t think office space really makes any sense For a decentralized platform like this one - the only place that makes sense is for the actual lead developers of the software that the platform runs. And even then with the WFH culture of today I think even that is not likely to exist.
As for server administration, the most I could really see is a regular online meeting to keep interests aligned as well as a staff audit log for the server owner to review. And Lemmy already keeps a public audit log anyway.
As for your last point I wholly agree with you. The whole point of federated systems like mastodon and Lemmy is to move away from the for profit system so we can avoid enshittification. It’s meant to be a method of spreading the cost across multiple smaller nonprofit organisations. And hopefully we can avoid it and therefore make the platform better.
That being said, the only thing that prevents a corporate entity from joining in is the instances and their federation policies themselves.
The only other way I see parts of the fediverse become for profit is if an existing non profit turns for profit, which is really only a big deal if it’s one of the larger instances. And as for how the rest of the fediverse deals with that. Well it’s again up to individual server owners, and the collective decision they may or may not make.
I’ve always said a social system that isn’t socialised is not a social system - I mean it’s in the name! And the fediverse is really one of the first major attempts at doing that. Wether it lasts or not we’re sure to learn a lot and if it fails, we can take those lessons and try again.