Less than 10 days after Hurricane Helene made landfall in Florida, the state is bracing for another potentially devastating blow from a hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico, this one a potential Category 3 storm.
That’s a good question. We do, now. But most of us can’t buy a new house, so we live in an older house. We don’t have a stone quarry anywhere nearby, so no tradition of stone houses, more frame houses because it’s hot and there wasn’t air conditioning so we built ventilated lighter houses that were cooler in the summer, there are still a lot of them around.
Yes, home hardening is one factor and even here in Florida, the building codes have been updated and the state provides matching funds for making improvements to existing houses (you apply, it can take some years to get to the front of the line) we got storm windows this way, and we got a strong metal roof when we needed to replace the roof covering. It just takes a really long time to change out or update the stock of houses.
And also, even though it seems like houses are getting knocked down every 5 minutes, there are still houses in Tampa built around 1900, it’s not that common in most cities. I was born here, am over 50 and haven’t even had to evacuate yet, assume it’s coming eventually but is not a frequent event here. Last direct hit around 1925.
People are so flippant about “just move” but I was born here, have seen the city get better, love it, have a good job, most of our kids still live nearby, its really expensive to move anywhere and pretty nice here most of the time still, and as a climatologist told my kid when they asked, probably will be ok through their lifetime.
In Europe most houses are made of brick and/or concrete, no need for a quarry anywhere nearby.
Also, the heavier the house the better it does when it’s hot. In hot places of Europe, traditional houses had very thick walls, small windows and are painted bright colors to reflect light (and heat).
Those are historical buildings, this discussion was about new construction.
Historically people used to use what was locally available. Most of Italy has plenty of stones, that were also easily accessible, so regular people could build out of stone. But in other regions of Europe there were no stones lying about, so cheap houses were being build out of mud + straw, more expensive ones out of brick and much more expensive ones from imported stones.
Thatched roofs will survive storms without issue. The reason why they aren’t used anymore except by rich people is cost: very labor intensive to place and on top of that the thatching has to be replaced every x years. They made sense when labor was cheap and transporting heavy goods expensive.
even cheapo plywood and cardboard houses cost a fortune so construction companies don’t build with stronger materials because no one would buy the house. that’s my armchair opinion at least.
Funny, though, that cheap sticks and cardboard houses like they are common in the US are a rarity here in Europe. Reinforced concrete basements are the norm here, and the rest of any halfway modern house (from the last 80+ years) is brick and mortar. My house has 30cm walls made from concrete blocks, and this is no outlier.
You answered your own question lol. Your “sturdy houses” would also get fucking wrecked by a hurricane or tornado or earthquake or wildfire. We expect our buildings to get destroyed every so often.
Relative to the cardboard houses in the usa, houses in Europe are indeed very sturdy. Our concrete houses might not be designed for hurricanes, but they would still fare way better than a house entirely build from stud walls. It’s always a bit of a wonder to us that in the usa, houses are being built in a manner that will not survive the next storm. And that that is allowed. The downside of the sturdier European houses is that they take longer and cost more to build, which is also why the average house is smaller.
Our concrete houses might not be designed for hurricanes, but they would still fare way better than a house entirely build from stud walls.
You only think that because you have no experience with them. Hurricanes demolish concrete and brick buildings just the same as wood, and floods don’t care what the material is.
“Their homes are robust, and built to last 400 years (estimated) without having to make substantial repairs.” You must have missed that part, so much for reading comprehension.
The difference in building quality between houses in the usa and northern Europe really is night and day. Tornadoes which would only take off the roof from European houses, tear down entire American neighborhoods. To us, it’s just shocking how bad those American buildings hold up. There are of course also Americans who chose to build to a higher standard, but they end up with smaller houses at a higher price, like we do in Europe. I don’t get why this is so hard to accept for you. We pay more for a smaller house, but that house is then build to a much higher standard. It’s really not a mystery.
Because it’s WRONG, you arrogant Eurocentric prick. A standard American built house would easily last a couple hundred years in Europe because nothing ever fucking happens in Europe. There are American houses that have stood since colonial times, not because of sUpErIoR eUrOpEaN cOnStRuCtIoN but just because they just happened to not be burned, flooded, or blasted apart yet.
Tornadoes which would only take off the roof from European houses
In your dreams. Commercial buildings in the US are typically built more robustly than European homes, and they’re still destroyed down to the foundations. You just have no framework for how massively destructive natural disasters are, because you haven’t had any for a thousand years.
There’s no point building a 400-year home in most of the US. Within a couple of generations, there’s a good chance something will destroy the very ground it’s built on.
I had found a good quote earlier by another American who had actually visited other places, I think now is a good time to share it:
"Americans who have never left their own little reality will tell you that American homes are actually solid… they’re not… I have lived in and visited many countries. American houses are built like shit.
My cousin built a house in Europe out of brick and concrete… and it’s WAY WAY WAY WAY better than the most expensive, nicest house I’ve ever been to in the US. I have anger issues and have punched through my walls on repeated occasions. You can’t do that with brick and concrete… probably a good thing I live in the US.
This is why when a tornado comes around, entire towns are demolished… All that would happen in other countries is some broken windows and shingles would come off the roof.
Americans pay more for their houses in terms of price, property taxes (insanely high), and repairs… to live in the lowest form of construction on this planet second to bamboo huts.
This is all due to American greed. America is a big mall where you get shit quality everywhere you go, but you think you’re actually winning because you are so self-deluded and isolated. Most Americans have never been anywhere else, but yet they will defend their garbage buildings that fall apart in a couple of decades or less. Speaking from my piece of shit house that was built 20 years ago that needs all floors and walls replaced because of mold seeping into the… wood… everything… wood and cardboard. ".
I also don’t get how you came to believe that there are no natural disasters in Europe. We have a stereotype of dumb arrogant Americans who are confidently incorrect, but still, what the hell man :)
No need to hate on capitalistic America that much. My question is also relevant for companies and landlords that would build houses for other people to live in.
They want cheap houses to rent because it means lower investment and faster time to profit.
They have insurance, so they don’t care if a hurricane removes it or damages it because they can fix it up and charge more once it is fixed or rebuilt.
Here in Europe we don’t get such hurricanes, but we still build very sturdy houses. Why don’t people in these American areas do this too?
That’s a good question. We do, now. But most of us can’t buy a new house, so we live in an older house. We don’t have a stone quarry anywhere nearby, so no tradition of stone houses, more frame houses because it’s hot and there wasn’t air conditioning so we built ventilated lighter houses that were cooler in the summer, there are still a lot of them around.
Yes, home hardening is one factor and even here in Florida, the building codes have been updated and the state provides matching funds for making improvements to existing houses (you apply, it can take some years to get to the front of the line) we got storm windows this way, and we got a strong metal roof when we needed to replace the roof covering. It just takes a really long time to change out or update the stock of houses.
And also, even though it seems like houses are getting knocked down every 5 minutes, there are still houses in Tampa built around 1900, it’s not that common in most cities. I was born here, am over 50 and haven’t even had to evacuate yet, assume it’s coming eventually but is not a frequent event here. Last direct hit around 1925.
People are so flippant about “just move” but I was born here, have seen the city get better, love it, have a good job, most of our kids still live nearby, its really expensive to move anywhere and pretty nice here most of the time still, and as a climatologist told my kid when they asked, probably will be ok through their lifetime.
Stone houses? Are you thinking of castles?
In Europe most houses are made of brick and/or concrete, no need for a quarry anywhere nearby.
Also, the heavier the house the better it does when it’s hot. In hot places of Europe, traditional houses had very thick walls, small windows and are painted bright colors to reflect light (and heat).
Honestly my image was of some Italian village posted yesterday on Lemmy that looked like it was made of stone. Or Osgiliath.
I do also remember houses with thatched roofs in England though, those don’t seem like they would survive a storm.
Those are historical buildings, this discussion was about new construction.
Historically people used to use what was locally available. Most of Italy has plenty of stones, that were also easily accessible, so regular people could build out of stone. But in other regions of Europe there were no stones lying about, so cheap houses were being build out of mud + straw, more expensive ones out of brick and much more expensive ones from imported stones.
Thatched roofs will survive storms without issue. The reason why they aren’t used anymore except by rich people is cost: very labor intensive to place and on top of that the thatching has to be replaced every x years. They made sense when labor was cheap and transporting heavy goods expensive.
We did indeed have a lot of brickyards many moons ago. And they required clay quarries which you can still see all over Europe.
Thanks for the in depth answer. I hadn’t thought of there being no easy stone mines.
I’m sad that I’m getting downvoted for simply trying to understand the current housing situation.
Be skeptical:
Might be worth it to get a second climatologist opinion.
Climaxologist?
There’s tabby, but it holds heat.
Trump’s campaign includes making homes less sturdy so we can have a larger supply 🙃
Worked great for his buddy Erdogan.
They already allow cardboard sheathing
Maybe his childhood dream was living in a flying house.
His daddy was a slumlord.
Tbf Kamala is also campaigning on “more houses” and not “affordable quality houses”
even cheapo plywood and cardboard houses cost a fortune so construction companies don’t build with stronger materials because no one would buy the house. that’s my armchair opinion at least.
Funny, though, that cheap sticks and cardboard houses like they are common in the US are a rarity here in Europe. Reinforced concrete basements are the norm here, and the rest of any halfway modern house (from the last 80+ years) is brick and mortar. My house has 30cm walls made from concrete blocks, and this is no outlier.
You answered your own question lol. Your “sturdy houses” would also get fucking wrecked by a hurricane or tornado or earthquake or wildfire. We expect our buildings to get destroyed every so often.
Yeah talking with you is not worth it. We’ve had very hard hurricanes and even earthquakes too. Just less strong.
lol show me the last hurricane to hit Europe
Relative to the cardboard houses in the usa, houses in Europe are indeed very sturdy. Our concrete houses might not be designed for hurricanes, but they would still fare way better than a house entirely build from stud walls. It’s always a bit of a wonder to us that in the usa, houses are being built in a manner that will not survive the next storm. And that that is allowed. The downside of the sturdier European houses is that they take longer and cost more to build, which is also why the average house is smaller.
Here’s some obversations from an American engineer travelling in Europe: https://forstconsultingllc.com/blog/european-vs-american-home-construction/
You only think that because you have no experience with them. Hurricanes demolish concrete and brick buildings just the same as wood, and floods don’t care what the material is.
Hmm, who to believe on this subject. You, or the constructional engineer that travelled on both sides of the pond. Tough call ;)
I read your article and he never even talked about what we’re talking about, dumbass. He just noted differences in construction.
“Their homes are robust, and built to last 400 years (estimated) without having to make substantial repairs.” You must have missed that part, so much for reading comprehension.
The difference in building quality between houses in the usa and northern Europe really is night and day. Tornadoes which would only take off the roof from European houses, tear down entire American neighborhoods. To us, it’s just shocking how bad those American buildings hold up. There are of course also Americans who chose to build to a higher standard, but they end up with smaller houses at a higher price, like we do in Europe. I don’t get why this is so hard to accept for you. We pay more for a smaller house, but that house is then build to a much higher standard. It’s really not a mystery.
Because it’s WRONG, you arrogant Eurocentric prick. A standard American built house would easily last a couple hundred years in Europe because nothing ever fucking happens in Europe. There are American houses that have stood since colonial times, not because of sUpErIoR eUrOpEaN cOnStRuCtIoN but just because they just happened to not be burned, flooded, or blasted apart yet.
In your dreams. Commercial buildings in the US are typically built more robustly than European homes, and they’re still destroyed down to the foundations. You just have no framework for how massively destructive natural disasters are, because you haven’t had any for a thousand years.
There’s no point building a 400-year home in most of the US. Within a couple of generations, there’s a good chance something will destroy the very ground it’s built on.
I had found a good quote earlier by another American who had actually visited other places, I think now is a good time to share it:
"Americans who have never left their own little reality will tell you that American homes are actually solid… they’re not… I have lived in and visited many countries. American houses are built like shit.
My cousin built a house in Europe out of brick and concrete… and it’s WAY WAY WAY WAY better than the most expensive, nicest house I’ve ever been to in the US. I have anger issues and have punched through my walls on repeated occasions. You can’t do that with brick and concrete… probably a good thing I live in the US.
This is why when a tornado comes around, entire towns are demolished… All that would happen in other countries is some broken windows and shingles would come off the roof.
Americans pay more for their houses in terms of price, property taxes (insanely high), and repairs… to live in the lowest form of construction on this planet second to bamboo huts.
This is all due to American greed. America is a big mall where you get shit quality everywhere you go, but you think you’re actually winning because you are so self-deluded and isolated. Most Americans have never been anywhere else, but yet they will defend their garbage buildings that fall apart in a couple of decades or less. Speaking from my piece of shit house that was built 20 years ago that needs all floors and walls replaced because of mold seeping into the… wood… everything… wood and cardboard. ".
I also don’t get how you came to believe that there are no natural disasters in Europe. We have a stereotype of dumb arrogant Americans who are confidently incorrect, but still, what the hell man :)
They mostly don’t own anything. Either a rich person or a company owns where they live.
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No need to hate on capitalistic America that much. My question is also relevant for companies and landlords that would build houses for other people to live in.
They want cheap houses to rent because it means lower investment and faster time to profit.
They have insurance, so they don’t care if a hurricane removes it or damages it because they can fix it up and charge more once it is fixed or rebuilt.
Yet