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- cross-posted to:
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/6745228
TLDR: Apple wants to keep china happy, Stewart was going after china in some way, Apple said don’t, Stewart walked, the show is dead.
Not surprising at all, but sad and shitty and definitely reduces my loyalty to the platform. Hosting Stewart seemed like a real power play from Apple, where conflict like this was inevitable, but they were basically saying, yes we know, but we believe in things and, as a big company with deep pockets that can therefore take risks, to prove it we’re hosting this show.
Changing their minds like this is worse than ever hosting the show in the first place as it shows they probably don’t know what they’re doing or believe in at all, like any big company, and just going for what seems cool, and undermining the very idea of a company like Apple running a streaming platform. I wonder if the Morning Show/Wars people are paying close attention.
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definitely reduces my loyalty to the platform
You are either paying the subscription or not, your inner states mean nothing to them or us.
I can think of an old great daily news show that still doesnt have a permanent host… please!!!..
Or run for president.
I’ve been saying, “Stewart for President” for decades now. He is perfect for the job. He would never want that job, which I just see as further qualification.
He fought congress for two fucking decades for 9/11 first responders and the families to get paid, he comes more than prepared to every talk, and he’s not afraid to shut someone down and call out bullshit.
I’d say he’s over qualified for work in politics
Ukraine got their version of Jon Stewart to become their president and he’s successfully fighting off a Russian invasion. Sounds like an endorsement to me.
Jon Stewart 2024 “It worked for Ukraine”
It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it… anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job
Let’s just kidnap Jon and pressgang him into the Oval Office. He’d be the best president since that peanut farmer, maybe better
Back when he was hosting the Daily Show? Yes. Now? I’ve watched his show a bit and… I think he went a little nuts on that farm of his.
He sounds like vegan Joe Rogan now. Too much conspiracy, too much long anticapitalist ranting while his guests sit awkwardly and say “uh, okay”.
He’s a good guy and what he did for 9/11 first responders was amazing, but he’s not the man he used to be.
Jon Stewart as president might be the greatest thing that could happen in my lifetime.
Well sure, point is producing Stewart’s show was a notable choice that indicated favourable things about the platform/studio.
Yeah you’re either a meal ticket for them or you ain’t.
“Let’s talk about all the cheap Chinese labour that Apple uses despite being the 10th richest company in the world.”
“Let’s not.”
Chinese people deserve jobs too. Comparative advantage is a good thing that helps everyone involved.
The Yuan is currently trading at 7.32 to 1 USD
Companies that appease the CCP are the problem, not companies that leverage exchange rates to better lives globally.
Chinese people deserve good jobs, not jump off of a building to kill yourself, but wait your the 4th person to do that this month so they installed a net jobs.
I am questioning where I supported Chinese government policies here?
Because the initial concern was pay, and that’s due to not understanding economic factors. I don’t support Chinese labor regs at all.
In fact I said
“Companies that appease the CCP are the problem” which I also thought was a nice little pun, given the show being discussed.
How is that a pun?
I don’t support Chinese labor regs at all.
I wonder why labor is cheaper in China.
Chinese people also deserve to not be sent to internment camps.
Yeah totally. Fuck the Chinese government.
Yes, fuck the Chinese government.
And the corporations, both Chinese and American, that help support it.
Depends on what that means imo. Global trade theoretically supports the Chinese government, because money is fungible, but is a net positive all around.
The Chinese will never stop clinging to autocracy without wealth of their own.
The “Chinese” will never have wealth, ask Jack ma.
The ccp would burn China to the ground before releasing an ounce of their power and stolen wealth.
That is not an excuse to stop trying to empower the Chinese to rise against their hellstate.
Capitalism broke the USSR and it will break the CCP.
The Yuan is currently trading at 7.32 to 1 USD
That means nothing without knowing the total supply
It means everything when talking about people’s pay.
For that you need 2 data pieces:
- The median pay of chinese workers in Yuan.
- The Yuan - Us Dollar cross currency exchange rate.
You then use the second to convert the first into US Dollars so that you compare the Chinese salaries in USD to American salaries is USD.
Merely the second piece of data wIthout the first means nothing if you’re trying to compare salaries.
For example, before the Euro the Italian Lira used to have a cross currency exchange rate with the dollar which was thousands of lire per dollar and that didn’t mean Italians in the 80s were incredibly poor: because for every dollar the average US worker received in their salary the average Italian worker got thousands of lire, all put together mean they got about 1/2 to 1/3 of a US salary rather that the 1/1000 that by your the exchange rate alone suffices “logic”.
By the way, that cross currency exchange rates are meaningless to compare incomes or costs without the actual incomes and prices in the local currency, is really, really, REALLY basic financial knowledge.
You then use the second to convert the first into US Dollars so that you compare the Chinese salaries in USD to American salaries is USD
You don’t need to do this because you only need to look at the fact that those jobs are competed for to see that they are desirable.
Wage parity isn’t a meaningful discussion when discussing comparative advantage. Too many other factors come into play.
Okay but you realize that any job would be competitive in situations of poverty right? That’s why you need the second data point.
That’s specifically why comparative advantage is a good thing - lifting people out of poverty is a good thing.
To fully measure Comparitive Advantages, you must include the differences in manpower costs, which brings us back to salaries (plus, since this is to compare manpower costs, you also need things like the employer-side tax costs such as social security payments), which then needs to be converted to a single currency using cross-currency exchange rates.
Further, every single monetary elements of calculating Comparitive Advantage which is in local currencies needs to go through those cross-currency exchange rates in order to be comparable.
There is no way you can calculate comparative advantage merelly with the single datapoint which is a cross-currency exchange rate because all that tells you is the relation between two units of measurement and says nothing about the actual quantities being measured.
As I said, this is incredibly basic financial stuff.
To give you a really basic non-financial example which hopefully will make you understand it:
- Two farms produce milk, one in Britain and the other in The Netherlands. The farm in Britain measures milk by the pint. The one in The Netherlands measures milk by the liter.
What you wrote in your original post is equivalent to saying that “The farm in Britain produces more milk because 1 pint = 1.759754 liters”.
You don’t know anything about how many pints the British farm produces, or about how many liters the Dutch farm produces, yet you claimed the ratio between two measurement units is enough by let you draw conclusions production numbers even though you used no prodution numbers.
If I was to bet I would say you’ve read some articles about how the exchange rate of the Yuan vs USD is kept artificially low to increase the competiviness of Chinese exports, didn’t quite understand how it works and still though you knew enough and applied it were it wasn’t applicable and/or in the wrong way.
Boy you sure do sound like you just got your MBA. Chasing the cheapest labor and lowest regulations really doesn’t douch for the populace other than make them slave laborers for better products for the benefits of other nations.
If the wages are the same across multiple industries then it doesn’t really help right? It’s just taking advantage of a poor countryand enriching higher members of that country who actually do see the most profit gained.It might help in getting advanced manufacturing set up in the country but that actually also hurts countries that rely on advanced manufacturing to keep GDP high when they are creating their competitors while doing little investment into themselves.
So yes it works to get the cheapest product possible but it’s really not the super helpful beneficial concept that you think it is and the whole world is not richer for these jobs we give to them to enrich further a group that just chases the quickest profit.
What a strange take when a mountain of evidence is right in front of you. China went from “nothing but cheap labor” to the next world superpower because of exactly this kind of exchange. They have modern cities with rapid transit, EVs, and a top tier domestic tech industry.
Well yeah I mean I kinda covered that. They now have advanced tooling and active investments into their infrastructure and country. It’s not yet actually reaching the majority of China and there is still wide issues with these investments. But now companies will have to find the new cheap labor if there is increasing access to jobs that are to pay enough for the citizens to access these higher standards.
A country can’t be cheap labor and an important market without either massive divide in the populace or slave labor.
And if they can’t get cheap labor there anymore these companies will leave and create rust belts like there are in the US. At which point the advanced manufacturing arm and service economy could take over if it’s built enough but they join into a already crowded space with dwindling access to resources. Not to say things haven’t gotten better in sense of moving forward technologically and amenities wise but that is basically always a guarantee of time passing. But this hunt for cheap goods for top level enrichment is not a wholly good venture and is quite destructive in ways that take little effort to see.
The Yuan is currently trading at 7.32 to 1 USD
But I thought Apple was the good guy, looking out for us folk and doing privacy-focused things!
What? That’s just marketing garbage? Nah, surely Apple wouldn’t just be a shitty company just like everyone else. Better buy some more overpriced products to support them!
The privacy thing was always hiding the real truth. Apple will never be able to compete with Google on ads or tracking: they have neither the engineering chops nor the reach. By being “privacy first”, it saves Apple money and cuts off a little of Google’s revenue stream.
The benefit to customers was a secondary effect.
Apple’s stance is more effectively like “Let’s get to know each other in private, babe” than “privacy first”.
Has anyone ever really believed that? It became very apparent very quickly that their MO was getting customers to buy only Apple products and then to replace them as often as they could get away with.
I dunno the state of stuff now, but my MacBook Pro is from 2011 and I still use it (with some upgrades)
And my phone is five years old, on its original battery, and is still faster than most of my friends’ phones lawl
People love to hate on Apple products, but they are great, IMO.
People hate on them because they are overpriced and they want complete control of your hardware and software.
You cannot repair or upgrade anything and you cannot install software they have not approved.
The experience takes a back seat to all of that. Never owned any Apple products and never will, unless the market or the EU puts sufficient pressure on them to cut out the bullshit.
I hated them when I was a teen, but I suppose that was PowerBook era. I got older and realized that I only hated them because they couldn’t play games and were expensive.
Bought my first MacBook (ironically for playing games on the go—PC laptops were shit back in 2007) and after an unfortunate soft drink accident had it replaced in 2011 (for free woooo!) That’s the one I’m still using today.
I don’t use any Google products or services so my only choice is an iPhone, and I fucking love it. Each iPhone I’ve had lasted more than four years, while still running great. That’s more than I can say about my HTC Dream lawl, but that was first-Gen so I give it some leeway.
Still a PC builder all the way, have four of them. But people shitting on Apple for their products’ longevity are silly. The cost is high (usually) but they’ve got some quality shit that lasts.
My pc has lasted 14 years (and I expect another 40) and been capable of playing every game in that time because I’ve been able to upgrade it without dropping thousands at once.
Apple products are good for sure, but they don’t let the consumer choose very much. Sometimes that’s good (I always advocated apple products for my grandparents) but more often than not it’s just annoying.
I buy a new android phone every 3ish years and give my old one to my mum, she’s never had one break yet so all mine have had at least 5-6 years life before she upgrades to my latest old one (and possibly it still has years left). I don’t buy the idea that Apple phones last longer than Android at all.
What upgrades? Not doubting you, just curious what you’ve been able to do.
That was kinda the point I was making because apple don’t really let you upgrade hardware so if you want an improved computer better go spend a couple grand on our shiny new one with a 0.2mm thinner screen!
They definitely make good products, and I advised my grandparents to stick to apple because it’s more intuitive for a non techy person, and because they’re all identical and customer support would be easier to deal with.
Phones matter a bit less I suppose because we’re not all upgrading hardware in android phones, they did recently lose a court case for deliberately throttling speeds on old devices though didn’t they?
16GB RAM and replaced the optical drive with a SSD!
Damn that’s a real shame, no surprise Jon walked out. That man actually has standards, he don’t need the money he was there because he cared and wanted to put out a positive voice that analyzed the bullshit we all have to deal with and his platform enabled that perfectly, just like his work for vets and burn pits.
I hope he transitions elsewhere but keeps the content as-is
don’t forget his battle with Congress to fund the 9-11 Emergency Responders
According to The Hollywood Reporter, ahead of its decision to end The Problem, Apple approached Stewart directly and expressed its need for the host and his team to be “aligned” with the company’s views on topics discussed. Rather than falling in line when Apple threatened to cancel the show, Stewart reportedly decided to walk.
Good for Jon Stewart. He held the line even when the money people demanded that he compromise. Maybe a VP pic. I could see it.
He is successful enough, old enough and made enough money, that he can just retire. Threatening him is an empty threat. He is 60 and probably given his long career earned more than he can spend in rest of his life, unless he goes super yacht and private jet crazy.
The whole show was a come back from retirement essentially. A voluntary indulgence on his part. Surely lucrative indulgence, but indulgence still. Apple needed him, he didn’t need Apple.
Most of the crew probably will leave for other project with a letter of recommendation from John in their pocket.
Because we all know how easy it is to silence Jon Stewart.
Something tells me he could get more funding for a show with a gofundme than Apple+ is authorized to spend.
reduces my loyalty to the platform
Why the fuck would you have any loyalty to Apple? They sure as shit don’t have any loyalty to their customers. In fact they piss in the face of their customers and tell them it’s raining.
Apple has setup their walled garden in such a way that you’re basically all-in or all-out of their ecosystem. I don’t know that they have brand loyalty as much as they have a captive audience that they can sell iWhatever to over and over again.
This is, and always has been, an illusion.
They have brand fanatics that don’t want to research alternatives because most Apple users aren’t even close to knowledgeable of emerging technologies outside their own ecosystem.
Apple retains customers by making them comfortable with the fact they offer most of what they need, and in an attractive, easy-to-understand package. The walled garden makes them feel safe and connected in a world they are slowly falling out of touch with, or the world they never were in touch with (the tech world).
I know people of all levels of intelligence that use Apple. It’s not about that… But I don’t know a single apple user (that has chosen that path) that’s highly knowledgeable about things like modern security, privacy, and/or the true potential and limitations of modern devices.
I’ve met a lot of hardcore people way up in the tech hierarchy that rock MacBooks. Like people who maintain popular languages, people who make kernel contributions, people who design CPUs and accelerators.
There are many knowledgeable people who willingly make the choice, understanding the tradeoffs and accepting them. Some people don’t want to be fucking with Arch or Kali for hours, or auditing their smartphone’s firmware, for the same reason most combat veterans don’t walk around wearing a bullet proof vest and a rifle.
Will you meet some hardcore hackers who won’t upgrade the kernel until after they audit the changelog of both the kernel AND the compiler they’re using? Sure. You’ll also meet some people who live in a bunker. They have their valid motives for doing so, and people have valid motives for not doing so.
Those people have MacBooks almost entirely because of the Terminal and because they don’t want to deal with Linux or WSL. Brand loyalty plays little into their decision
They could sell bottled water, claiming it’s better than all other water and the absolute fanboys who will live and die by apple will absolutely spend a whole months paycheck and sell their liver just for a single bottle.
they have brand loyalty
Oh, they have some brand loyalty atleast. In my country, Apple has a miniscule market share across all domains[ laptops or phones included ]. They recently launched 2 Apple Stores in a bid to slowly extend themselves inside the market. Quoting from a news article
Another Apple loyalist, Vivek, who waited in the queue for 17 hours to get his iPhone said, "I have been here since 3 p.m. yesterday. I waited in the queue for 17 hours to get the first iPhone at India’s first Apple store.
I’m pretty sure those people who wait in line are either paid to do so, or genuinely suffering from a negative mental health condition.
if you see price of iPhone in developing countries, it cones out to be more than a month of income.
so, it’s essentially a status symbol.So they’re basically 50s house wives showing off their new microwave. Why are humans like this, like I get showing off your shit but doing it for status is just weird.
that’s very much on the point.
As for the reasons — from what I’ve observed — it’s more of a follow culture. they saw someone influencial(in their eyes) doing this, so they now have to ape it. I doubt if there is any more thought process going on here.I have friends who have bought(or actually, have been bought into) these phones on monthly installments.
No, but they have at least two good sci fi series.
What’s the other one?
I’d argue that the two are For All Mankind and Foundation. However, Silo, Ivansion, and Severance could all be in that discussion.
Yeah I’m not gonna lie, their streaming platform is incredible but I ain’t giving them any money LOL
They have one or two good shows, but it’s a HUGE stretch to claim the entire offering is “incredible”.
I’ve gotten it for free through tmobile for over a year now, and it’s the least used platform I subscribe to.
There is something particularly amusing and very ironic that a mega-corp like Apple, the most valuable company in the world, is standing up to defend a communist dictatorship and won’t accept any dissent.
Jack Ma approves of their decision.
Meh, realistically I don’t think Jon does it because he needs money.
He seems like the kind of person who does things because it’s the right thing to do. So taking away his platform isn’t going to make him go away or shut him up.
It might take a while for him to get another one but I’m confident this guy will be on his deathbed telling people in power they suck & should do better.
We need more people like him
Paramount is foaming at the mouth.
Looks like I’m going to continue not watching Apple TV for the foreseeable future.
I have many subscriptions that I pay for, netflix (for now), HBO, prime… but Apple is not one of them. I just Sail the seas when I want to watch Severance lol
Severance is one of the most original shows I have ever seen. The torrent must flow
Ahoy, matey
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another reminder that apple’s “privacy, that’s iPhone” is a marketing gimmick. they profit from surveillance and censorship in China1. elsewhere, this catchphrase has allowed them to suck Facebook’s as revenue into their growing ad business, surpassing even tiktok in terms of ad revenue2.
they’ll happily do pink washing, but will try everything do dilute labour rights3.
so, apple is just your average big tech. nothing exceptional about them(except for them suing regular people to oblivion4).
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1: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-censorship-data.html
2: https://finshots.in/archive/apple-is-an-advertising-giant-almost/
3: a simple search result would lead you to many such cases: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=apple+labour+rights&ia=web
4: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/11/technology/apple-trademarks.htmlThey were so close to implementing on-device scanning last year it’s scary. The number of people who supported it because Apple promised to only use it for child sexual exploitation material really shocked me. “Think of the children” really does have a way of making people’s brains short circuit.
It was a lot longer ago, like 2.5 to 3 years ago, but that’s pedantic.
My own father was shocked that they’d do that (his death is how I know the timeline; no sympathy required, I’ve dealt with it, it happens). He really respected them, primarily through my respect of them and excitedness about their tech. He was blown away that they’d even consider such a thing. He just couldn’t calculate how such a misstep could happen. I can, but what a mistake that was.
I’ve seen an argument that this could have been a calculated risk to prevent attacks when they enabled increased encryption. I don’t think it was that, even if that was the resulting effect. They are too protective of their brand to deliberately take a hit.
Let this be the regular reminder that any time that a gigantic for profit corporation seems to be doing the right thing it’s a mere coincidence and they are following their bottom line. The moment those two depart, they will look after their bottom line right thing be damned. There are no moral corporations.
Maybe those good things they do while are convenient to them are moral and bring real benefits and can be followed and celebrated, but ultimately they are a convenient mask to trick customers. So don’t ever be loyal to a brand, be loyal to principles.
Insert South Park Disney Mickey Mouse China meme
Big props to John for walking away.
How did Apple not see this coming up as future conflict with it’s talent. Its almost like they didn’t watch the fucking show, or the causes he devoted himself to after retiring. It’s a rare thing I know, but not everyone can be bought. His entire platform that he’s built up over the years, would have collapsed if he had pulled a John Cena.
Stewart was “edgy” in the 00s but is largely a safe bet these days. More Kimmel than Oliver.
China was always a danger but also seems like the kind of thing that can be “this is the one topic you aren’t allowed to talk about” and nobody would ever really notice.
The real issue is AI. You can’t NOT talk a bout AI at this point and that is where even liberal leaning centrists tend to have very vocal takes about the implications on labor and media.
I also disagree with the Kimmel comparison, as his facade as a nice guy became transparent as his show progressed. I am not a Stewart fanboy in any sense, and while he may have lost some edge due to maturity, he has stayed true to what he thinks is the right thing.
I am not talking about whether you like them as a person or want to go to their birthday party.
What I mean is that Kimmel will go hard on a “safe” topic like trump but is not going to be causing controversy. That is more or less where Stewart has been since The Daily Show (honestly, kind of during it too).
Whereas people like John Oliver are very much the kind of people you hire knowing that the ratings will be worth the controversy.
I will admit I really haven’t considered the implications of AI being a real threat. I am aware that it is a potential tool to cut labor costs, but havie not gone further into the rabbit hole.
In the early 2000s, the conservatives were The Man.
Progressive ideology from even 2012 has largely trickled into conservatism as it is now. Modern “progressives” are now going mask off as neoliberal uniparty fascists. It’s why the Democrats and uniparty Republicans both support war while conservatives are opposing it. 40 years ago Republicans fully supported proxy wars with Russia.
Apple tv sucks anyway. I’d like to remind people that it’s near the end of the mls season and they still have no android mobile app. They actively piss on anyone not totally in line with their ecosystem, etc.
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For what it’s worth, they do have an Android TV app.
Which makes the lack of an android app all the more shitty. They have one already but refuse to make it available if the device isn’t connected to a TV.
Then you get into the actual layout of the program. Spoilers are a huge issue. I can’t watch a game later without having the game ruined partially. Sure you can switch off scores, but you still have to scroll through game highlights to get to the full match replay.
Changing their minds…shows they probably don’t know what they’re doing or believe in at all
undermining the very idea of a company like Apple running a streaming platform
I’m not sure in what way it was suggested that Apple was “different”, but to clarify, companies don’t do things for “ideas” they do things for profit. If it increases that profit, they “believe” in it, and if it doesn’t, they’ll kick it to the curb.
And not only is Apple no different than any other company in that respect, they are pretty much the top-tier example of it. They’re a $2 trillion company, the biggest in the world. They didn’t get to that point focusing on the greater good. Nothing is more important to them than their profit.
