I really think some of the Linux crowd on Lemmy are way too sensitive and liberal with downvoting. That’s a perfectly fine comment to make. I imagine a friend saying that to me in real life and obviously it’s just an inoffensive joke/jab that shouldn’t be taken at face value.
It’s not like I give a flying fuck about downvotes regardless but when it comes to Wayland the X11 folks are just wrong. It’s time to move on, and bitching and screaming isn’t going to make the developers come back to fix it. It’s Weekend At Bernies, the display manager.
Shut the fuck up, install Wayland, and help submit bug reports and make it better. It’s the future.
So, as it’s been stated, Wayland is still not universally better than X. There are still bugs in places. Gaming is still an issue. Kwin’s implementation still isn’t complete enough to be reliably introduced as the default.
This is after years and years of work. Yes, making an entirely new display protocol is hard. However Wayland was introduced as the “eventual X replacement” when I was in high school. I’m 30 now. I’ve heard some variation of “Wayland is almost ready” since my senior year of college.
At some point it becomes exhausting. At this point when someone says something along the lines of “in a year or two, Wayland will reach a point where X.org will be a thing of the past” my immediate reaction is to call bullshit.
While I mostly agree with you, adoption and readiness follows a curve and, at some point, that curve begins to steepen. The curve ahead of us is steeper than the curve behind us.
GNOME defaults to Wayland now and is actually talking about removing X11 support. This Cinnamon post says that they will also do that in a couple of years. KDE is talking about doing it next year with Plasma 6.
Once GNOME and KDE have switched, the majority of Linux desktop users will be Wayland by default. Not only will that drive the ecosystem to fix remaining problems more quickly but it will just not matter as much.
In the next 36 months, it is going to go from “when will Wayland be ready” to “who is still using X”?
I dunno, i daily sway/Wayland & game without issues (including game streaming). Wayland gaining mainstream support across most distros (especially something as “slow” as debian) is proof enough that its not the eventual replacement, it is the replacement.
What I’ve done instead is configured a desktop hotkey that toggles the system-level microphone mute. Two birds with one stone: foolproof PTT and on the same hotkey regardless of Zoom/Meet/Teams/Slack/Discord (consulting is fun)
My sticking point with Discord in particular is that, at the moment, it’s allergic to file drag and drop under Wayland. If I want to drag and drop a file attachment, I have to open the file explorer dialog and drag onto that.
This is more of a Discord being sluggish to update problem than a Wayland being unstable problem, but it’s still extremely irritating.
In the meantime (how many years did it take Discord to update their electron to a not-quite-as-ancient version the last time?), one thing I’d like to see here would be the option to allow listening to global keypresses for certain apps. Yes, that makes security slightly worse I guess but I’d rather have all the other benefits of Wayland working for me while this one isn’t working yet.
I don’t get a chance to use Wayland too much (Nvidia sadly), but I swear I had heard KDE came up with something for this. I believe it was if you use non-alphanumeric keys, it’s supposed to allow it (because you wouldn’t use those in say, a password).
However, I can’t confirm this - nor can I confirm if it’d work with Discord specifically.
I am excited about Wayland. I’m just waiting on PopOS to run it as the default. I’ve tried using it but I was getting hard locks when I left my computer idle for a while.
The logs made it seem like it was a Wayland issue so I switched back to x11 for now. It hasn’t happened since.
I imagine most people don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other. They just want their distro and em to work well.
Wayland has worked better than X.org in my experience.
I tried i3 with Compton and Picom - both compositors for X.org - and it had major rendering issues, both on AMD (weird lagging) and NVIDIA (colour issues). Meanwhile I tried Hyprland on a spare PC and it provides a great tiled WM with both form and function. If anything’ll get me on a tiled WM, it’ll be Hyprland now. I’m also looking forward to Wayfire. We need a spiritual successor to Compiz.
I’m glad to hear it. I am ready to start using it. The architecture is so much more modern and secure. I’m assuming(hoping) Cosmic will be on Wayland when it’s launched.
This has been my first struggle with Wayland. Used to be able to enable remote desktop with a single check box in most distros, then VNC into it from a Windows PC no problem. It’s a real hassle now and glitchy at best once it’s up and going. I gave up and have been using Anydesk to remote access a machine, and even that wasn’t simple to get going.
In the Steam Link app, you have the option to select “Start Streaming” without picking a specific game. This will stream the screen as it is without binding to a specific window.
The main caveats here are as follows:
Requires a working pipewire & desktop portal configuration
Depending on desktop portal & settings, you may need to manually click through the screensharing request modal on your desktop at the start of each connection
The Steam client must be installed and running on your Linux machine in order to receive connections
Yeah, can’t help you there. I use Firefox tab sync to send browser sessions to other machines so I don’t feel the need to RDP into anything to keep a train of thought going.
I see, of course for browsing the web, I would still use a local browser on the iPad. I would use the remotes session for learning different linux/coding things, where SSH is not enough, while I’m not gone in the bureau for several hours but sharing the evening with the family.
Remmina or krdc work fine for me. Also parsec (no hosting there though). Oh if hosting, I’m not sure, but moonlight/sunshine work fine for me, even if it’s not the usual desktop sharing app.
I’ve tried. KDE Plasma on the 4k external screen is giving me big black blocks to the right of windows I move or for the launcher… Like a shadow. Flickering trails of black block shadows if I move windows around. The latest nvidia driver did finally fix the mouse leave trails of black boxes, though. No idea if it works for Gnome, I can’t stand Gnome’s layout, workflow, and window management.
Can’t replicate your results here. I play on Wayland, and deliberately force some games to run natively on Wayland (SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland) and so far I haven’t noticed any framerate changes except statistical noise.
Even the FPS monitor numbers show the same but there is visible lag when playing on wayland as against X11 (you’ll perhaps need a side-by-side comparison to notice). This isn’t just my observation, it’s well-known in the linux gaming community
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Ooooh how dare you? Dontyaknow Birdie from Phoronix is struggling to run a window manager from 1983 on a ATi Rage II with Wayland???!?!??
It’s here on Lemmy, too.
I was down to like -50 on a thread about an X11 vulnerability and all I wrote was, “Imagine still running X.”
I’d downvote that comment too. It adds nothing to the discussion and is deliberately confrontative and superficial.
Ditto.
That comment does look out of touch for a lot of people though
I really think some of the Linux crowd on Lemmy are way too sensitive and liberal with downvoting. That’s a perfectly fine comment to make. I imagine a friend saying that to me in real life and obviously it’s just an inoffensive joke/jab that shouldn’t be taken at face value.
It’s not like I give a flying fuck about downvotes regardless but when it comes to Wayland the X11 folks are just wrong. It’s time to move on, and bitching and screaming isn’t going to make the developers come back to fix it. It’s Weekend At Bernies, the display manager.
Shut the fuck up, install Wayland, and help submit bug reports and make it better. It’s the future.
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Imagine running “not X” and it doesn’t work.
So, as it’s been stated, Wayland is still not universally better than X. There are still bugs in places. Gaming is still an issue. Kwin’s implementation still isn’t complete enough to be reliably introduced as the default.
This is after years and years of work. Yes, making an entirely new display protocol is hard. However Wayland was introduced as the “eventual X replacement” when I was in high school. I’m 30 now. I’ve heard some variation of “Wayland is almost ready” since my senior year of college.
At some point it becomes exhausting. At this point when someone says something along the lines of “in a year or two, Wayland will reach a point where X.org will be a thing of the past” my immediate reaction is to call bullshit.
While I mostly agree with you, adoption and readiness follows a curve and, at some point, that curve begins to steepen. The curve ahead of us is steeper than the curve behind us.
GNOME defaults to Wayland now and is actually talking about removing X11 support. This Cinnamon post says that they will also do that in a couple of years. KDE is talking about doing it next year with Plasma 6.
Once GNOME and KDE have switched, the majority of Linux desktop users will be Wayland by default. Not only will that drive the ecosystem to fix remaining problems more quickly but it will just not matter as much.
In the next 36 months, it is going to go from “when will Wayland be ready” to “who is still using X”?
at some point they’ll be right though! Right when shmayland is announced as the successor to Wayland–since Wayland is getting long in the tooth.
Don’t worry, Pottering will fix it and replace Wayland with a new facet of Systemd. /s
I dunno, i daily sway/Wayland & game without issues (including game streaming). Wayland gaining mainstream support across most distros (especially something as “slow” as debian) is proof enough that its not the eventual replacement, it is the replacement.
Can’t properly replace something if it doesn’t yet work for everyone.
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Says the person on a cheap video card.
Im on a 7900xtx?
My only issue with it currently is global hot keys. Push-to-talk on discord only seem to work when a xwayland window is in focus.
What I’ve done instead is configured a desktop hotkey that toggles the system-level microphone mute. Two birds with one stone: foolproof PTT and on the same hotkey regardless of Zoom/Meet/Teams/Slack/Discord (consulting is fun)
My sticking point with Discord in particular is that, at the moment, it’s allergic to file drag and drop under Wayland. If I want to drag and drop a file attachment, I have to open the file explorer dialog and drag onto that.
This is more of a Discord being sluggish to update problem than a Wayland being unstable problem, but it’s still extremely irritating.
The API exists, just waiting for things to catch up.
In the meantime (how many years did it take Discord to update their electron to a not-quite-as-ancient version the last time?), one thing I’d like to see here would be the option to allow listening to global keypresses for certain apps. Yes, that makes security slightly worse I guess but I’d rather have all the other benefits of Wayland working for me while this one isn’t working yet.
I don’t get a chance to use Wayland too much (Nvidia sadly), but I swear I had heard KDE came up with something for this. I believe it was if you use non-alphanumeric keys, it’s supposed to allow it (because you wouldn’t use those in say, a password).
However, I can’t confirm this - nor can I confirm if it’d work with Discord specifically.
If you use arch, there is
discord_arch_electronwhich can build with the latest electronI use WebCord though
I’m also annoyed with the global key issue, but for Discord, I just set a key to mute my mic system wide.
This is a hack at best and might even get you banned.
I am excited about Wayland. I’m just waiting on PopOS to run it as the default. I’ve tried using it but I was getting hard locks when I left my computer idle for a while.
The logs made it seem like it was a Wayland issue so I switched back to x11 for now. It hasn’t happened since.
I imagine most people don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other. They just want their distro and em to work well.
Wayland has worked better than X.org in my experience.
I tried i3 with Compton and Picom - both compositors for X.org - and it had major rendering issues, both on AMD (weird lagging) and NVIDIA (colour issues). Meanwhile I tried Hyprland on a spare PC and it provides a great tiled WM with both form and function. If anything’ll get me on a tiled WM, it’ll be Hyprland now. I’m also looking forward to Wayfire. We need a spiritual successor to Compiz.
I’m glad to hear it. I am ready to start using it. The architecture is so much more modern and secure. I’m assuming(hoping) Cosmic will be on Wayland when it’s launched.
I presume so, but there might be an X.org version because of NVIDIA, who still seems to be problematic with Wayland when using their drivers.
What Remote Desktop tool works for you in Wayland? Found none Working well on Wayland (Maybe I did something wrong when I tried VNC and RDP)
This has been my first struggle with Wayland. Used to be able to enable remote desktop with a single check box in most distros, then VNC into it from a Windows PC no problem. It’s a real hassle now and glitchy at best once it’s up and going. I gave up and have been using Anydesk to remote access a machine, and even that wasn’t simple to get going.
Honest answer? Steam RemotePlay
But this is only for games, isn’t it?
In the Steam Link app, you have the option to select “Start Streaming” without picking a specific game. This will stream the screen as it is without binding to a specific window.
The main caveats here are as follows:
The only time I RDP is to my Windows machine for gaming and I’ve had great success with Remmina
Oh, yea, was thinking the other way around: I want my GNOME session streamed to an iPad, that I can use on the couch. (OpenSuse tumbleweed)
Yeah, can’t help you there. I use Firefox tab sync to send browser sessions to other machines so I don’t feel the need to RDP into anything to keep a train of thought going.
I see, of course for browsing the web, I would still use a local browser on the iPad. I would use the remotes session for learning different linux/coding things, where SSH is not enough, while I’m not gone in the bureau for several hours but sharing the evening with the family.
Remmina or krdc work fine for me. Also parsec (no hosting there though). Oh if hosting, I’m not sure, but moonlight/sunshine work fine for me, even if it’s not the usual desktop sharing app.
I’ve tried. KDE Plasma on the 4k external screen is giving me big black blocks to the right of windows I move or for the launcher… Like a shadow. Flickering trails of black block shadows if I move windows around. The latest nvidia driver did finally fix the mouse leave trails of black boxes, though. No idea if it works for Gnome, I can’t stand Gnome’s layout, workflow, and window management.
Gaming. Frame rates on Wayland are horrible as compared to on X11
Can’t replicate your results here. I play on Wayland, and deliberately force some games to run natively on Wayland (
SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland) and so far I haven’t noticed any framerate changes except statistical noise.Even the FPS monitor numbers show the same but there is visible lag when playing on wayland as against X11 (you’ll perhaps need a side-by-side comparison to notice). This isn’t just my observation, it’s well-known in the linux gaming community
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