• Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    This is not particularly surprising. Lemmy was started as an anti-corporate project by leftists after /r/chapotraphouse got quarantined and later banned (subreddit for the most popular podcast and most donated patreon at the time), with the explicit goal of preventing corporate control from being able to silence leftists when they’re blasting off. CTH was skyrocketing in subscribers at the time it was quarantined on August 8th 2019, and when even quarantining didn’t stop its growth or slow down its activity afterwards Reddit pulled the plug under the excuse it promoted violence, but the only particularly edgy thing ever said there was “slave owners should be killed” and support for John Brown. This evolved post-ban into the assessment that Spez banned it because he wants to own slaves.

    When that happened there was a massive shift in the leftist parts of reddit as we very quickly realised we’d be targeted if reddit ever deemed us to be too successful, and projects like Lemmy began in reaction. CTH’s community in fact moved to Lemmy 3 years ago, and resides on Hexbear.net but has not yet joined the rest of federated lemmy due to technical issues (it used to be a fork with a different front end).

    Given lemmy’s specific anti-corporate origins seeing Lemmy.ml do this should surprise nobody. It’s the correct move anyway.

    • Rusticus@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Completely agree - If lemmy.world doesn’t block very shortly I will move to a different instance.

      • Contravariant@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I mean, that’s how federation ought to work right?

        Though it’s a bit of a shame that moving user accounts doesn’t really seem to be a thing yet.

    • Logical@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Has anyone heard any comments from them on this? Reconsidering my choice of instance unless they block threads.

    • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I feel the same. Lemmy.world has demonstrated itself as a popular Lemmy instance, like a huge playground, but Facebook instances must be given the boot. I am okay with seeing myself out of here, if it does not happen. Being on lemmy.ml for years, I will have zero issues doing that.

      • Doug@vlemmy.net
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        1 year ago

        If people want to be on q duck platform they can join threads I joined lemmy to escape reddit not move to a zuck hell hole

      • russjr08@outpost.zeuslink.net
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        1 year ago

        Same, performed the update to 0.18.1 and figured “well I’m already here so…”

        I’ll have no part in playing their game.

    • Genericusername@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Back when I was a kid and got my first computer, I was mostly offline except for the occasional dial-up session. I didn’t have much to do on the internet anyway and it was quite expensive. I remember being amazed the first time I have set up to meet a friend over ICQ, rather than a phone call, of being able to communicate with other computers from mine. It didn’t matter whether these computers were at a neighbors’ house, a different city or entirely different country. I was looking forward to the internet giving us ways to connect like never before. No barriers, just directly communicating and bridging cultural differences and whatnot. Little did I knew that this was just one phase, as the internet gets more and more segregated. Rather than connecting with people, it gives you the ability to filter out whatever you don’t agree with, while staying connected with those who share your beliefs. It’s like we are no longer living the same reality and can’t even agree over fundamental things. I miss the old naive days of the internet when we feared viruses and the occasional pedophile in a chat room. Nowadays it’s the possibility of spreading misinformation that could overthrow a government. Either having it going uncontrolled and unregulated, or having a private company in control of such power.

      Personally, I think that this should be the choice of an individual user rather than the platform.

  • Gamers Mate@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I am proud of Lemmy.ml for defederating. The second I find out if kbin social or lemmy world defederate or not I will just move to the other one since I use both. (Edit turns out Lemmy.ml is run by Tankies and also allows federation with lemmygrad.)

  • Seperis@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Hard agree.

    I don’t really think federating with them is doomsday, tbh (though I go back and forth on this one), but that doesn’t affect my primary reason for my nope. Threads consolidates everything I hate about corporate social media–and for that matter, all social media–without a single part I actually liked and made dealing with the other parts worth it. This is not a twitter clone; it’s like someone asked chatGPT to create a social media network based on twitter for other chatGPT bots to talk to each other. For fuck’s sake, it doesn’t think its users should control what they see on their own feed.

    I am perfectly willing–even eager–to perform melodramatically about things that annoy me in public for fun and when I’m bored and applaud others doing the same; it’s fun times for all and possibly my favorite thing ever. This is not that.

    Threads makes my skin crawl on concept. This is not ‘they do not align with our values’ because come on, Fediverse contains a multitude of values and invents more and i bet if asked, everyone here would list off a different set of values they believe encompass Fediverse and now I’m tempted to see because it would be hilarious. But we can’t even get that far; Threads has no values. This would be a marriage of convenience to a real doll fueled by Facebook’s algorithms and sponsored by Wal-Mart; whether or not it’s a danger to Fediverse shouldn’t even have come up because the first question that should be on anyone’s minds is ‘wait, this is actually a serious question?’ and have been answered ‘lol of course it’s a joke, I just forgot to add the /s’.

    I’m still waiting for that /s.

    • Mikina@programming.dev
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      1 year ago

      I’ve actually just asked that in another post, because I am kind of interested in what people see as Fediverse main idea.

      But, thanks for this summary of how Threads looks like, since I’m avoiding it like a plague. You seriously can’t even select what content you see? Fuck, that’s way worse than I though - that’s so obviously a ML model manipulating with people without holding anything back. I hope they’ve at least done something with the misalingment where it seems to just radicalize people to keep them on the platform, because if not, the world is fucked.

      I hate Meta so much…

      • lagomorphlecture@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Trust me, they’ve taken any knowledge their new ex Twitter employees had about radicalizing people to keep them on the platform and integrated it fully.

      • Seperis@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Fortunately I have never had instagram and have a policy of never, ever using my wallet name online except as needed (exception: usenet my first year online; I was young and reckless). LinkedIn and Facebook were quite literally because a.) grandparents and other family, b.) my job, and c.) I realized early on that I needed an official web presence under my real name because there would be questions if there wasn’t something out there.

        So I made an instagram account then made a threads account, got a friend who had it to follow me, and did a quick dive.

        I mean, it’s literally a minimalist twitter real doll; I deactivated to keep my name intact, logged out, and deleted instagram and Threads on the phone in under five minutes and took a shower because I never realized the uncanny valley applied to an app’s aesthetic. It’s just–I mean, no. No no no.

      • FinalBoy1975@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Yeah, exactly. I don’t have Facebook, Instagram, etc. because I hate them as an online experience. I’m here because it’s not that kind of experience. If the fediverse turns into the type of experience meta imposes on its users, I would just have to hope that something else alternative that I like pops up.

      • EricHill78@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Out of curiosity I tried it for a few minutes yesterday. All I saw was a bunch of influencers and low level memes. I had duck duck go tracker blocker on just to see how bad they are and it’s worse than I could ever imagine. It showed 686 tracker attempts from 35 different companies and I was only on for about 10 minutes.

        • Mikina@programming.dev
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          1 year ago

          And that’s another issue - if we federate, you won’t even be able to block those trackers, because the Meta instance will just be able to ask the server for those data, if I understood it correctly.

    • FinalBoy1975@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I think defederating from them is a no-brainer for the fediverse, but who am I? Just a user of the fediverse. I do not own an instance. I choose the fediverse over meta and its facebook crap, so for me it’s a no-brainer. For owners of instances, maybe it isn’t such an easy decision. It costs money to run an instance, for example. Federating with the Facebook corporate goons at first will seem useful to some instances, especially the big ones that want to stay big and general. When the big and general ones that fall for Meta’s scheme to take control of things, the smaller instances on the fediverse that chose to defederate will be there to join.

      • Seperis@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I’ve been thinking on that and assuming fosstodon and lemmy.world both agree to defederate with Threads, I’m going to go ahead and set up regular donations. I only use DW a few times a year, but I renew my premium membership every six months and it’s not cheap. I want to keep supporting it because its model does not include ads at all (premium gives you lots of icons, too, and I used to be a huge icon person, so I can’t say that’s not a consideration). Unless I lose my job or something, I’ll keep paying until death or dw closes whether I ever use it again; it’s worth supporting.

        I was already considering it–when i joined mastodon I bought their stickers to show my appreciation–but this is been a wake-up call. If lemmy.world decides to federate, I mean, I’m not going to leave, but I am going to email lemmy.ml about why my application is still pending and use that for my primary.

        • FinalBoy1975@lemmy.world
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          It’s just the way federations work. I think a lot of people are worried because it’s a new type of social media with a different structure. You don’t have to rely on one place anymore to socialize online, you can pick and choose what you want to connect to. If you don’t like one style, you can pick another style. The thing that worries me is whether or not there different styles will continue to exist or if one entity will monopolize everything. The nice thing is that most modern democratic countries have laws about monopolies and they do in fact work. Several monopolies have been avoided or eliminated in the past.

  • fross@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    It’s not about Zuckerberg, it’s about the userbase. With something that grew to 30 million users literally overnight, it’s impossible to determine what it will be like, and how it will mesh with the existing fediverse content/users.

    With something this scale, it only makes sense to secure and observe - pre-emptively block, watch the content, maybe even poll the users on what should be done. There is nothing to be lost this way, it’s only a cautious approach towards a potential later link.

    What could be lost is the Threads community overwhelms the lemmy community before there is a chance to react (it is 1000x bigger, after all). It makes sense to be cautious, here.

    This isn’t inconveniencing anyone, any user can make an account on Threads as well and use both right now.

    • God@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Fun thoughts and all but that isn’t the reason why they’re blocking it. It’s because Facebook is bad. Corporation, big, embrace, expand, extinguish, evil. Plenty of explanations around about why these blocks happened. However you’re also right. If it were very small like a 15k people instance and it didn’t carry corporations inside maybe they’d consider not blocking.

    • Ulu-Mulu-no-die@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      If I wanted to see facebook shit I would use facebook, I stopped using whatsapp when it was bought by facebook, I don’t want to see their content overwhelming the fediverse, that’s why I’m here instead of there.

      • fross@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I don’t agree with this notion of “facebook content” vs “fediverse” content or anything like that. Content is just content, it’s links, it’s media, whatever. It’s not “facebook shit” any more than reddit shit or lemmy shit. Content is a by-product of the users, so who/what the userbase is is extremely important - and that is why how it is marketed, who it appeals to and so forth, and the relative scale. thousands of lemmy users being drowned out by millions of Threads users, who are a different demographic, have different goals for the platform, and so forth, is the real issue.

        You acknowledge that you have moved on from platforms when facebook/meta have got involved, and you’re welcome to take your decisions on this, but it runs into problems in a federated environment where the goal is to increase interoperability by default.

        Don’t get me wrong, I think our goals are the same, to have an environment where people can talk and share links that is relatively exclusive / for like-minded people. I just don’t think the angle of facebook/not facebook is the right one (tbh I would go further - I would not integrate, but not because of the provenance/company, but because of the users’ expectations coming over from Threads)

        • Ulu-Mulu-no-die@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Content is just content, it’s links, it’s media, whatever

          Content is not all the same, there’s quality content and there’s shitposting.

          “facebook content” is mostly - to me - shitposting, astroturfing, botting, propaganda, etc. as reddit has become lately, while lemmy content is mostly quality discussions.

          I don’t want shitposting burying quality content here, that’s what will happen if we don’t do anything about it.

          Not to mention corporate control, look what happened to reddit, and look at how many scandals there are about faceboook (now meta) as a company, why do you think they want to join the fediverse, they don’t give a crap about quality, their only interest is in monetizing stuff, embrace - extend - extinguish, I don’t want ANY of that happening to lemmy.

        • Millie@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Let’s see if you feel that way when your feed is filled with hate and ads.

          • fross@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I think you didn’t understand my comment. " thousands of lemmy users being drowned out by millions of Threads users, who are a different demographic, have different goals for the platform" specifically.

    • lagomorphlecture@lemmy.world
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      I don’t think threads actually has 30 million users. They have some paid shills, probably a lot of their own bots, some people who legit joined to see what it was about, and a bunch of Instagram users who had accounts created automatically. I’m not positive about the last point but if you can’t delete threads without deleting Instagram then I’m sure they’re going to leverage their Instagram userbase as much as possible here.

    • Flax@feddit.uk
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      1 year ago

      Or make an account on an instance which chooses to federate with threads 😂

  • nyternic@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Look, Mark has royally screwed up Facebook. Any respect or honor with the guy has long been lost. Why even give him a second chance when it’s obvious he’s going to do the same thing with Threads?

    His Metaverse failed. His Facebook/Meta thing failed.

    He is a huge red alert to be involved or close to the very things we’re trying to recover and escape to from things he has contaminated. Why chance associating with him?

  • LazyBane@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Ideologically, de-federating an instance just because you don’t like the guy running it would be a bad thing, but Facebook/Meta has been just so toxic to the internet as a whole it’s hard to really find fault with it.

    • WiseassWolfOfYoitsu@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      My concern is less Suckerburg as much as Meta’s corporate history. My expectation is that they’ll try to use this to conquer and destroy Lemmy.

    • lagomorphlecture@lemmy.world
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      Ideologically, I find more fault in inviting meta to the playground than locking them out. They are the very definition of an evil corporation and no good can come of it.

      • jaaval@sopuli.xyz
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        1 year ago

        Pragmatically, twitter style system requires a large networked userbase to be useful for most of the population, otherwise people are tooting into the void in mastodon. So even if I have to work with some soulless corporations to get there I think it’s a net positive. For lemmy i don’t think threads matters much.

    • Lifter@discuss.tchncs.de
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      I thought the whole ideology of the fediverse was to get away from corporationl influence. So I’d say this is very much true to the ideology as well.

    • paintbucketholder@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Yup.

      Facebook has been around for almost two decades.

      This is not some unknown guy - we know exactly what Facebook’s business strategy and ethical and moral conduct looks like.

    • gornar@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I saw someone in another discussion say it perfectly: they put the meta back in metastatic!

    • DAC Protogen@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I think one can be “open” to a fault. If you cling to principles and morale for the sake of it and without exception or nuance, you set yourself up to be exploited or worse. Many things, entities, interactions in life contradict each other and it is important to set boundaries and make decisions for yourself. Because life and people are multi-faceted and aren’t nice and clean and perfect, which blind, naive idealism fails to take into account. The keyword here is nuance.

      Many big tech companies run on greed and inhumane, unhealthy, invasive practices for the sake of pure, blind, unsustainable growth and profit. And I would argue that this is one of the driving factors of the fediverse even existing. If you don’t clearly separate yourself from these practices, then we all can simply use Reddit. But people create, maintain and use alternatives for a reason. Not taking a stance or action against what you want to escape from, even openly inviting it for the sake of being open and on a morally high horse makes simply no sense.

      Idealists won’t like to hear this, but it’s the same with peace. Look at Ukraine to have a recent example. Most people want to live and prosper in peace. That is natural and desirable. But there are always some, who profit from war and who try to destroy things, disregarding the fate of others. Or political systems that want to expand territory and exploit / convert whole populations. When the desire for peace is only one-sided, and all attempts of talking or peaceful incentives fail, you can either protect yourself forcefully or be stolen from, raped, tortured, deported or murdered, watching your homeland be turned into ashes and those you love suffer for decades from the consequences.

      In the same way, when the desire for openness, humane fairness without exploitation of users is one-sided, you have to draw a line and take a clear stance to defend that “safe space” you seeked in the first place from entities and principles that contradict it. And we have decades of clear evidence how big tech, especially Facebook / Meta operates, they are known to invade user privacy, strive for one-sided power, try everything to avoid or circumvent legal regulation. They have more than earned to be excluded from a place created to offer something better, healthier. And it’s not like we hurt feelings here, it’s a corporation, a virtual, soulless entity.

      I can only speak for myself and do what I deem is good for me, so I’ll migrate to Lemmy.ml, because at least they have the balls to stay true to a concept, even if it involves difficult or ugly decisions. And even if blocking Meta won’t fully “protect” the fediverse, at least it is a clear message and limits the amount of power they can achieve and the amount of damage they can do here.

    • STUPIDVIPGUY@lemmy.world
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      being open to everything is not better though, and being open to meta specifically will threaten and lower the quality of the place. lemmy.world should defederate with threads

    • WardPearce@lemmy.nz
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      Yea agree, not a fan of “Meta”. But I think limiting who can use federated networks kinda goes against the federated nature of such networks. What’s next, we’ll have a centralized blacklist of lemmy instances.

    • whiskers@lemmy.world
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      The article was a nice read. I’m surprised that there is either no awareness or discussion in the privacy conscious tech crowd over here on the lack of privacy from anonymous bad actors. Everyone seems to only care about Meta, who are bad, but the most they will do with our data is advertise to us. The other bad actors enabled by ActivityPub can actually doxx, redistribute, save our posts, messages.

  • Jordan@infosec.pub
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    I’m actually shocked by the growth of threads, I underestimated how much people don’t care about their digital privacy.

    • morgan423@lemmy.world
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      Agreed. Ruud has done a lot of great things for .world in its short time, but I don’t agree with his decision on this… I do hope he changes his mind.

      There’s no need to “give Meta a chance,” they’ve already demonstrated who they are time and again. And I don’t want to end up having to leave .world in the future because the traditional Fediverse split in two, and .world is on the wrong side of it.