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he has blocked before at the request of erdogan multiple times.
But Elon has no clue why everyone thinks he’s a nazi
Reason # 3,487 to get off/stop paying attention to X, the ‘everything app’.
Well, that is one way to get off the Nazi platform.
Expecting Bluesky to do the same in a short while.
Why?
What content broke the laws? Can you give more info? BlueSky has been pretty good so far so this surprises me
There needs to be some sort of unblockable self-hosted broadcast system where users can spin up their own cloud hosted instance by entering a username and password and choosing one of hundreds of providers for a small fee, or self hosted instance as quickly and easily as installing a single app on an android phone. These with act just like websites, but with a common protocol and API so they can communicate with each other and with clients with no specific add-on. Then, Turkey or whoever could block Turkish ISPs from fulfilling that request, but anyone else could still access the instance in their client as long as their own instance doesn’t block it.
Hostable on a phone, a windows PC, Linux PC, self-hosted VM, cloud rented VM, whatever. And easily portable from one place to another.
Sure, uptime and reliability would suffer, EG when PC is turned off, but that’s acceptable to gain resilience against ISP, central services like google and Facebook and twitter, and government interference.
I have designed a system to do this, using very reliable existing protocols and programming frameworks, I just don’t have the time or money to invest to make it happen.
deleted by creator
Hah, I designed one as well!
I think the flow of information has to be fundamentally different.
In mine, people only receive data directly from people they know and trust in real life. This makes scaling easy, and makes it impossible for centralized entities to broadcast propaganda to everyone at once.
I described it at freetheinter.net if you’re interested
Just a friendly gesture among right-wing autocrats.
Free-speech absolutists gonna free-speech.
Elon following Turkish censorship
Nazi platform.
Make sure to stop clicking on Nazi links when people post them. No matter how bad you want to see someone “prank” someone or cry about their perceived persecution.
We need to stop making a Nazi platform important enough that it hurts democratic politicians when they lose access because of the Nazi in charge of said platform.
ABC is a nazi platform now?
and if you absolutely must see something on twitter, use xcancel instead.
its a frontend for the same content, that doesn’t add views or ad revenue to twitter.
X restricted Imamoglu’s account in Turkey complying with a legal request by Turkish authorities who cited national security and public order concerns.
X are also challenging the legal order in court: https://x.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1920426409358455081
You’ve called the good guys here the nazis and let the actual authoritarians off the hook scott-free.
You’ve called the good guys here the nazis and let the actual authoritarians off the hook scott-free.
Only if you ignore that Twitter is owned by a nazi, and that the person above didn’t say anything about letting, the authoritarian regime in turkey off the hook.
Only if you ignore that Twitter is owned by a nazi
It’s not.
Perhaps you have not been following the news. Elon Musk owns Twitter these days.
I know they would comply just as well, as I stated in another comment, because they are a private platform, but actually in this case the presence on Bluesky of the Imamoglu account in perfect condition with 129K followers proves that something else must be the case here.
Also, X didn’t give a shit about complying in Brazil.
Nah, Nazi platform does nazi stuff, it’s that simple.
You can come down the mirror now.
Bluesky blocked his account in turkey btw, just like X did. Bluesky have made no mention of challenging the legal request in court like X have though.
Iirc the Brazil situation was the first time anything like this had happened since Musk bought Twitter. They definitely didn’t handle it correctly, but they’ve clearly learned since then. Now they comply with legal requests and challenge them through the courts. Would you prefer they just folded every time and didn’t challenge, like all the others? Like Bluesky?
Good work on calling me a nazi though! I did nazi that coming!!
The fact that Bluesky didn’t post about it doesn’t mean they did not challenge.
Also, a file on Google Drive is not a petition submitted. There is nowhere a letter signed or stamped as received.
You know you can pay a law firm for drafting a letter and then not send it, right?
There are too many conclusions you are coming to without knowing the actual facts.
I judge what happened for sure.
And for sure both of them complied, officially asked to or not, to obscuring a political prisoner’s account (and dozens of other activists as well, by the way).
Also, regarding X, this is old news, from the end of March.
Also, are you X? Like, the platform, its personification? Because if you are not, then I didn’t call you a nazi. You can go clean your snot from your neckbeard.
So your position is that X aren’t challenging the censorship request in court?
That’s one hill to die on I guess.
The X post is from the other day, not March.
I hear often Nazi this Nazi that? I think it has lost meaning. Can you explain what Nazi is? Vs Nazi from like WW2?
I think it has lost meaning.
It has. Completely. Basically what it means today is “people who disagree with me” and should be regarded as such. Unfortunately the actual nazis will fly under the radar now.
Some people wouldn’t know a Nazi if he was sending people to camps without trial, trying to outlaw the political opposition, fomenting a cult of personality, launching coups, oppressing the most vulnerable people, ratcheting up racist attacks, and threatening to attack Denmark.
Would Xi jinping be a Nazi?
He’s certainly a fascist autocrat
As a serious answer, Musk is into modern variants of eugenics and some scary techno-authoritarian stuff he shares with Peter Theil and other Silicon Valley royalty.
Maybe he’s a techno-neonazi? That’s just semantics.
His alleged Nazi salute is indeed kind of a red herring. But “Nazi” is an reasonable enough descriptor for his beliefs.
Note how Jin, the Nazi Defender (not a Nazi themselves, they just defend people who are justifiably called Nazis) won’t respond to your answer.
One feature from Reddit I liked was the ability to tag people. Or maybe that was the reddit enhancement suite. But Jin would’ve earned himself a big red “Nazi Defender” tag.
If you perform a Nazi salute, you’re a Nazi.
Musk performed TWO Nazi salutes on national television during a presidential inauguration.
Musk owns X.
Anymore questions? Do I need to illustrate with crayons?
Tim Waltz, one of the people vigorously calling Musk a Nazi for doing that action, is on video doing the exact same “salute”:
You’ll agree Tim Waltz is a Nazi, I assume?
Some would say a Roman salute 🫡 So anything else substantial? That can’t be interpreted as something else?
Italian here, Roman actually.
The Roman salute has not origin in ancient history.
It was formalized by Gabriele D’Annunzio, a sick fascist poet and writer, as a salute for his proto-fascist troops with which he occupied Fiume in modern-day Croatia, having been inspired this painting.
So yea, the roman salute is a fascist salute, invented by a fascist, for a fascist occurrence and to call it roman is a disservice to Rome and history in general.
But anything else? that’s what I’m asking
There’s plenty:
But this is the most I am willing to engage at the moment with an obvious troll
not my job and this is not the place to waste my time providing a textbook-level of evidence of what you could have researched yourself if you were willing to be persuaded, but ask your History teacher if you’re seriously asking.
Then why did you reply to me?
I know what a Nazi is However people often misuse it with people they disagree with. Elon already had a lot of hate before that.
Can a Jew be a Nazi? Are Kanye a Nazi?
People with their beehive mentality, just echoes being what other people says. Can’t have simple discussions without people trying crucify you for asking questions.
The word ‘nazi’ has 100% lost its meaning.
Might as well just be saying “I don’t like this person or group of people because they disagree with me.”
Dude, Musk literally thinks he has superior genes. The fuck are you high on?
Ekrem is Kemalist, which is very similar to a literal Nazi, but in the current world I’ll even agree he’s kinda better than many other variants.
You might find this interesting, because Erdogan is also a Kemalist (at least some variation of it).
Ah yes, I can see how you can see the guy who used religion all his political career to his advantage and shat on the constitution just so he can stay in power longer, as a Kemalist.
/s
Like legit, the guy hates Ataturk’s guts, yet these idiots claim that he is a Kemalist.
I want what they are smoking. Must be some pretty good shit.
Free speech absolutism at work
It’s frustrating that we knew he was full of shit when he was saying it. And now the evidence is showing it is bullshit. And it’s like it doesn’t even matter.
We knew it was bullshit about 3 days after he took over when he banned literally the 1 person he specifically said he was not going to ban.
They know they can do that sort of shit because they hold the power. They can blatantly and unconvincingly lie, their followers will regurgitate those lies, but neither of them really believe them. They are just posturing and having fun with words, just like fascists always have done.
Never believe that [fascists] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The [fascists] have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
X restricted Imamoglu’s account in Turkey complying with a legal request by Turkish authorities who cited national security and public order concerns.
https://x.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1920426409358455081
“full of shit” = “standing up for free speech against governments that are trying to censor political opponents” ?
- How is censoring a politician “standing up for free speech”?
- “full of shit” = not a “free speech absolutist”. “free speech absolutist” implies that you will not censor any speech no matter what.
You don’t seem to understand how the legal system and governments work.
They issued a legal request to censor his account in Turkey. Failure to do so would result in severe consequences for X, such as having to take X offline for all of Turkey.
X complied with the law and are challenging the censorship request in court, the only place that has the power to overrule the government.
You don’t seem to understand how the legal system and governments work.
I am not a lawyer but I do understand how jurisdictions work. Elon is not in theirs.
Failure to do so would result in severe consequences for X, such as having to take X offline for all of Turkey.
If he were a “free speech absolutist” as he claims, he would let them.
You didn’t answer my question.
Elon isn’t. X is.
I did answer your question. Last paragraph.
X is.
No it is not. Twitter is a US company with US servers. If you want to argue that the US is now a territory of Turkey, please cite a source.
I did answer your question.
No you didn’t.
Seems like a good opportunity to frame Musk and Erdogan as allies.
A little context might have been nice, but then the musk hate and conspiracy theories would be harder to justify:
X restricted Imamoglu’s account in Turkey complying with a legal request by Turkish authorities who cited national security and public order concerns.
They’re also challenging the legal request in court: https://x.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1920426409358455081
The context is in the article in the OP. It doesn’t really matter. Elon is notoriously apathetic about the law. He could choose not to comply as he does so very often and realistically face very little in the way of repercussions. But that’s how little he actually cares about free speech.
The context is extremely important in this one. It changes the sentiment from “Musk is censoring the political opposition because he supports the government” to “Musk complied with the legal demands so as to not have to remove X from the entire country of Turkey, and is fighting the demands in court as he says they are censorship”.
X is now notoriously law abiding, but also notorious for fighting against government ordered censorship in court. They comply with legal orders so as to not face legal trouble, and then file legal challenges - even going so far as to pay for and help with legal challenges for individuals who the government are censoring.
It’s not important. Elon did not say “I’m a free speech absolutist within the confines of the law”. Free speech absolutism does not make exceptions for law.
Further, those legal demands were made by a foreign country with no authority over him or his company. Here’s some helpful context: Elon doesn’t even recognize the local authority but suddenly he bends knee to authority demanded from the other side of the planet? Nah.
It absolutely does when you’re running a business.
Companies operating in a country need to follow that countries laws, or they can’t operate in that country. Fact.
Why do you think the GDPR laws were such a big deal worldwide?
It absolutely does when you’re running a business.
It absolutely does not. If you’re running a business you simply don’t refer to yourself as a “free speech absolutist” because it’s fucking stupid.
Companies operating in a country need to follow that countries laws, or they can’t operate in that country. Fact.
Then a “free speech absolutist” would stop operating in that country. Fact.
So you think the best way for a company to fight a government trying to eliminate free speech from their country is to……checks notes……remove their product that is used by millions from said country?
Not to take them to court to fight their attempts to stifle free speech, but to just……leave?
“Free speech absolutism” is not “the best way” to do a God damn thing. This has nothing to do with the “best way” to do anything. It’s about the owner being a pathological fucking liar.
Complying with the incumbent to silence opposition is a political decision. Erdoğan is known for silencing and jailing opposition and anyone with knowledge of Turkish politics is aware of this
Complying with the incumbent to silence opposition is a political decision.
No it’s not. Did you even read the linked X Global Affairs post?
Lack of compliance with these orders can lead to severe sanctions, including throttling of the entire platform in Türkiye. X complied with the court order while we challenge the order in court because we believe keeping the platform accessible in Türkiye is vital to supporting freedom of expression and access to information, particularly following natural disasters and other emergencies.
It’s not a political decision, it’s a legal one. If they don’t comply then the entire site can legally be banned from the entire country, for example.
Yes I read that and hold that this decision is still highly political. Technically X can choose to simply not exist in Turkey. Obviously they won’t do this and Erdogan knows this, profit is king. This doesn’t change the fact that they are choosing to cow to threats by a dictator. Legal decisions are political and have political implications. Who do you think wrote those laws?
So you think that instead of complying while fighting the legal order and being able to tell users that what is happening, you think that they should pull the entire site from the country?
They aren’t “choosing to bow to threats by a dictator” - they are following the law, and fighting the legal order through the courts.
Come on mate lol. They’re doing the absolute most user and free speech friendly thing they can possibly do given the situation.
Question - what would you have done in this situation if you owned and ran X?
I would never stoop so low as to exploit the labor of others
What?
I am well aware it isn’t a logical business decision, I just don’t care
Yeah, he is forced to, but just to be clear, he will bitch for a month if this happens for thoroughly legitimate reasons in any country that is a functioning democracy e.g. UK, Brazil, Biden US, Germany, South Africa…
X is challenging the legal order in court btw:
https://x.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1920426409358455081
Just like they have done and are doing in basically every country that makes legal demands like this.
Edit: the dogpiling in here is insane.
I post a link to a tweet where X spell out that they were FORCED by the Turkish government to ban the account, and that they are challenging the order in court because they don’t believe in this violation of free speech……and I get downvoted?
Oh thats funny because they refused to take down the Sydney stabbing videos, despite being told to for months. They gave us a half arsed geoblock for Australia while still allowing the offending material to circulate.
And Musk will routinely attack free speech, he does it all the time on X to users e.g. plane tracker guy
Edit: Ah you’re a rightist troll trying to pretend Musk isnt a Nazi, I see.
They took the stabbing videos down in Australia. They fought against removing them from the rest of the world saying that the Australian “safety commissioner” doesn’t have the jurisdiction to do that.
The speech free platform continues to remove speech.
He should go to Bluesky and get blocked there as well.
Why would he get blocked there?
He would get blocked there because BlueSky will comply with legal requests as well, because if they don’t they will face criminal charges and/or massive fines. BlueSky, being a platform that loves censorship, would not challenge the legal order in court like X are either.
Even fediverse instance owners would be forced to block his accounts under threat of fines and/or prosecution.
edit: BlueSky have already blocked his account lol
if they don’t they will face criminal charges
The Turkish government does not have the authority to enforce criminal charges on an American person/company.
Even fediverse instance owners would be forced to block his accounts under threat of fines and/or prosecution.
Only if the instance owners/servers were in Turkey.
Criminal charges was probably the wrong word, but that’s being pedantic. The company operates in Turkey and allows Turkish people to use the product, so they have to follow Turkish laws. The Turkish government can file legal charges against them for failure to comply. Same with any fediverse instance owners - they would either have to block their instance from all Turkish users, or comply.
that’s being pedantic
It’s not. At all.
they would either have to block their instance from all Turkish users, or comply.
No, they wouldn’t. Once again, Turkey has no authority over people and servers not located in their jurisdiction.
The Turkish government has legal authority over companies that are serving their citizens.
Why do you think the GDPR laws were such a big deal even outside of the UK?
The Turkish government has legal authority over companies that are serving their citizens.
No. They don’t. You can keep repeating this non-sense but it’s simply untrue.
No one on X should expect anything better
If they’re still on Xitter it means they approve of this
People on X expected what is actually happening, not what people in here think is happening (and hope it is).
- The Turkish government ordered a legal request to ban the opposition leaders account in Turkey.
- X complied with the legal request, as there are huge penalties for not complying
- X immediately started the process to challenge the legal request in court
This is what most people on X expect, which is to fight for free speech on X.
