That would be quite a boost on top of how cheap solar is getting. Just need a good and cheap storage solution for the grid to run on more and more solar later and later into the evening.
That’s lovely idea but I don’t have even money to buy a newly made car. Where I’m supposed to get money for significantly more expensive (price and repair coat) and unreliable electric car? Now I can repair my car on my own cause it’s old and easy, also easy to refill. Electric cars is not the way. Also it’s not that green as everybody thinks…
The perspective is fun, buying a new car in Denmark is a big investment, for many people it’s around what they make in a year after taxes, and even then it’s a relatively small car. I’m not saying electric is the golden bullet people want it to be, far from it as of right now, but we need to change something in order to have a chance of saving ourselves from destroying the planet. Perhaps a higher fuel cost will incentivice smaller cars, and thus better milage, for our American friends?
Oh, I definitely agree with that one. Sometimes there is a genuine need for a car of that size, but whether it being media propaganda or not, I feel like there is a lean towards cars of that class, and usually not in a “I need this for a specific purpose, and not just to show the world how small my donger is” kind of way.
You guys have cheap gas and cars in comparison to my country (the Czech Republic) considering the average wage, which is ~ 22 200$ here. And the prices of cars (and mostly everything) are higher here than in the USA. Whole last year we had inflation of 17% and now it’s not particularly lower.
Our politicians instead of aiding people are taking money from them in taxing more basic stuff like water, food and also more tax on income, taking money from elderly people, not supporting families (it’s cheaper here to not be married) while raising their salaries and buying fcking military planes and gear in value higher than is our yearly GDP.
When people demonstrate in Prague on the main square (usually over 100k people, which is 1% people of our whole country, 2x quarterly) their bought mainstream media mitigate the impact and label the people as pro-rusian idiots, even though the demonstration is about unhappiness of people with government not about Russia at all.
Our government is lead by a party which didn’t even win the elections, not even closely. They put together 5 parties (of which other 4 basically betrayed their voters by merging with the other parties of different ideas) to create a majority in order to do as they wish.
They created new laws like that nobody in parlament can talk for more than 5 minutes cause they didn’t like obstructions from other parties to fight their program. They don’t even talk to unions and take interviews anymore about topics which mostly concerns the people.
The solution is not more fuel efficient or fuel alternative cars, it’s the replacement of cars entirely (where reasonable). But you can’t shock that, because it requires infrastructure which literally doesn’t exist in much of North America, and is severely lacking in the rest of it.
We used to have good public transit but it was demonized and dismantled by car manufacturers. There is a bus that runs near my house but the closest I can get to work is still several miles away and I cant use it to get home because of how early it stops running. Train service recently improved to twice a week but still has limited stops.
Over half of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck. Between sky high rent/mortgage, student loans and medical bills, getting a new car is often unrealistic.
The point of expensive fuel is to stop manufacturers from making gas guzzling monstrosities. If fuel was $2 a litre would you be looking for a tiny-penis truck or a more efficient car?
Manufacturers follow the market
I drive around a country the size of Texas in a 1.2 litre hatchback and have no issues with that
There already is a used market. Old evs with ranges between 75 and 100 miles can be had for less than $10k. For any homeowners already driving 2 cars, using one of these for daily commutes and local errands makes a lot of sense.
I’m sorry but I don’t want used ev. Battery will be degraded and buying new one is like buying a new cheap petrol car. If you don’t buy new one, you’ll have a shity range, which is already shity and heavily exaggerated by manufacturers, especially in high and low temps which are for example in Europe where I live almost 50% time of whole year. There is no infrastructure to charge ev cars and it’s decades away from being build, especially in my country.
If evs should be reality it has to have range at least 600km in worst temp scenario while being able to charge fully in 15 mins tops.
And even than I wouldn’t want it. I wanna have car which I can easily repair myself, without electrical shenanigans and bulshit like changing whole fcking light instead of just bulb, or having to ask to access software of my car, jeez…
I don’t want my car to have displays instead of buttons. I don’t even understand how that can be legal, when you obviously don’t watch the road to adjust fcking air conditioning. Or that stupid hold the line function which has car in my work. You can’t even turn that shit off and it steers instead of you. When I overtake a cyclists it’s a living nightmare and not talking about state of roads which have like multiples lines over and the cars is fcked.
I’m 29 and I don’t want to have over-electroniseid everything…
Europe […] There is no infrastructure to charge ev cars and it’s decades away from being build, especially in my country.
Which country is that?
Just the other day I got a taxi trip in a Tesla, with a guy showing photos of how he’d gone from Spain to Ukraine with a bunch of other Tesla taxi drivers to bring back some refugees. That sounds like he could get a recharge, across most of Europe?
So much wrong with this one.
But on the “i can’t afford” one. Yes, you might not be able to afford a new electric car. They are a luxury still and will probably stay that until we see enough teslas on the used market.
But you also dont have to buy a new car. if you can not afford your car right now and doubling the gas prices will worsen that condition then something entirely different is wrong.
Might be multiple things. Either you are American and you live in a nice-ish house in the suburbs: Your politicians and the car industry have failed you for a long time. I would say go vote but i doubt that even a fully dem senate and ruling party would change a lot.
Might be that you don’t earn enough money at all. This one is a bad one, because it means your politicians have failed you deeply. Agin, voting might change it a bit to the better but if you cannot demand a bigger wage to fund your only way to get to work then you’re out of luck.
Even if you could buy an electric now, it would not save you any money if you don’t or can’t change something else drastically.
Drive less, earn more, move closer to work if that’s even possible.
I get what you’re saying, but I’m not sure you realize just how much that would hurt people. Europe is much more densely concentrated and has far better public transit options. Many parts of the US are extremely rural. My nearest grocery store is a 30 minute drive away. There are no stores in walking distance at all. There are no sidewalks. There are no busses, trains, or cabs in my area, and that is not wildly uncommon.
If costs of gas doubled, at least without viable alternatives, it would absolutely bankrupt people. And it would disproportionately impact poor people in rural areas where it’s very common to commute to work 30-60 minutes of driving is a common commute. While it varies by state, US federal minimum wage in the US is $7.25/hour. Many people commute for work, and an hour drive one way is also not uncommon.
Let’s take 7.25 an hour x 40 hours = $290 before taxes.
We’ll keep it simple and say a person uses only 1 gallon of gas per day to get to and from work which, at $8 a gallon x 5 days a week = $40. Just that travel to and from work and no other travel at all (or maintenance on the vehicle) would be 14% of pre-tax income.
So many things need to change so I understand the perspective, but I think it’s really important to consider the widespread impact. Obviously the US has a lot of issues contributing to this situation.
I agree but will counter, maybe people should be prioritizing buying motorcycles and heated jackets over trucks and suvs that make up 80% of new sales. I think gas price should be based off mpg MORE than now. If you get 15 mpg than you pay 15 per gallon. Get 30mpg you pay 7 per gallon. Only exceptions are for vehicles used for operational work, not commuting.
maybe people should be prioritizing buying motorcycles and heated jackets
Tell me you’ve never been to the US without telling me.
I’m an avid motorcycle rider. I’ve been riding for over 20 years. I’ve ridden in all sorts of weather. I once had to lie in a muddy ditch next to my harley while the tornado went by. More than once I’ve ridden 30 miles (48.6 kilometers for those who can’t multiply by 1.62) in the snow.
The issue is, snow, ice, and tornadoes aren’t good for most people on a motorcycle. I’m one of the few completely crazy people who does ride in all weather. But the US is a place with some pretty crazy weather, and many parts of the country str too cold or too icy to ride in for half the year. So even if we collectively bought a Grom and a nice riding suit with a heated vest, most people couldn’t ride it for a big chunk of the year.
A much better suggestion, until we can get some sort of public transport, is small cars, but every time someone makes a small economy car in the US, most people act like it’s an affront to their very testicles and they spend a weirdly large chunk of their time complaining about said cars, even if they dont own one. For examples, see opinions on: Toyota Prius, Chevy Spark, Mitsubishi Mirage.
I mean that was exactly my point. I lived in denver and ny and I dont ride under 35 degrees F unless its only 5 min. Going careless wasnt my real reccomendation, but its a huge answer for a huge swath of population. I live in socal now and its trucks and suvs as far as the eye can see. And If even this crowd is going to downvote me, then its even more dire than I realized. People are crazy car centric, and its irresponsible way to live
That’s a fair counter, and I definitely agree there are many things that could be changed to improve the situation.I also think the US needs to move away from large vehicles, and it’s a huge problem that so many people are purchasing vehicles that get poor mileage and are ultimately bad for the environment.
I would argue though that there are some issues with the motorcycle suggestion. First, in many areas of the country it’s only feasible to ride a motorcycle about half the year due to weather. In the New England area, it’s only feasible in the summer. Otherwise, the snow and ice make it far too dangerous. Plus, if you have a family/children, then you also need some kind of car, so now you have to buy, register, inspect, and maintain two vehicles. There are also costs for getting a motorcycle endorsement on your license and an additional fee each time you renew your license to maintain that motorcycle endorsement on your license.
The problem with the “pay per mpg” would be older cars. I used to drive a very old car with very bad gas mileage. I also lived in that car. There’s risk of disproportionately impacting people with low income. Of course, that could be countered based off the the year of the car, or income, or some other thing – but I’m sure there would be loopholes and other issues there.
Anyways, really interesting topic to consider. Thanks for the respectful discourse!
Good reply, id fully support the exception for those living in vehicles and having the cost decay over time like registration does.
As for the cold, thats only a part of the country for a part of the year. I can buy 2 reliable cars and a motorcycle for the cost of 1 new luxury truck. People want new big and flashy to feel self important, ita sad. But I guess that acceptance of debt is what keeps America going now idk.
They do, it’s called the European Union and they have publicly-funded means of transportation through it. They can freely move through the borders of any nation in the Schengen Zone without need of a passport. You can travel through most of Europe by many different means besides automobiles.
Our country is just too stubborn and individualistic to ever elect politicians that would see through the time and money required for the types of projects needed to make the US no longer reliant on cars and trucks. On top of that, it could take decades. Say if we ever did, it would just get shut down when the next conservative blow hard convinces enough people that it isn’t worth it.
Long term projects like that just aren’t in the cards for the US any more.
Yeah, no shit. Not surprised no one here grasps concepts that aren’t spelled out in blinking neon but my comment wasn’t glorifying American waste. It was mocking their self-centered and needlessly dickish bs. But go off.
You have 3x higher average yearly salary than in the czech republic while having 2x lower price of gas/petrol. And we are considered developed country… You have nothing to complain about. Get yourself 1.2 litre hatchback like I have…
I would ban every engine above 2l in citizen commute cars cause there is no need for more power.
4$ per gallon that’s approximately 1$ per litre.
I hope it will at least double for you so you know what it’s like to pay for petrol in Europe…
I hope it will at least double to shock the system into prioritizing clean energy.
Ah yes, hurt the poor people to make the rich wake up. That’ll definitely work!
That would be quite a boost on top of how cheap solar is getting. Just need a good and cheap storage solution for the grid to run on more and more solar later and later into the evening.
That’s lovely idea but I don’t have even money to buy a newly made car. Where I’m supposed to get money for significantly more expensive (price and repair coat) and unreliable electric car? Now I can repair my car on my own cause it’s old and easy, also easy to refill. Electric cars is not the way. Also it’s not that green as everybody thinks…
The perspective is fun, buying a new car in Denmark is a big investment, for many people it’s around what they make in a year after taxes, and even then it’s a relatively small car. I’m not saying electric is the golden bullet people want it to be, far from it as of right now, but we need to change something in order to have a chance of saving ourselves from destroying the planet. Perhaps a higher fuel cost will incentivice smaller cars, and thus better milage, for our American friends?
Something needs to happen to get us Americans off of the ridiculously oversized and overpriced pickups.
Oh, I definitely agree with that one. Sometimes there is a genuine need for a car of that size, but whether it being media propaganda or not, I feel like there is a lean towards cars of that class, and usually not in a “I need this for a specific purpose, and not just to show the world how small my donger is” kind of way.
You guys have cheap gas and cars in comparison to my country (the Czech Republic) considering the average wage, which is ~ 22 200$ here. And the prices of cars (and mostly everything) are higher here than in the USA. Whole last year we had inflation of 17% and now it’s not particularly lower.
Our politicians instead of aiding people are taking money from them in taxing more basic stuff like water, food and also more tax on income, taking money from elderly people, not supporting families (it’s cheaper here to not be married) while raising their salaries and buying fcking military planes and gear in value higher than is our yearly GDP.
When people demonstrate in Prague on the main square (usually over 100k people, which is 1% people of our whole country, 2x quarterly) their bought mainstream media mitigate the impact and label the people as pro-rusian idiots, even though the demonstration is about unhappiness of people with government not about Russia at all.
Our government is lead by a party which didn’t even win the elections, not even closely. They put together 5 parties (of which other 4 basically betrayed their voters by merging with the other parties of different ideas) to create a majority in order to do as they wish.
They created new laws like that nobody in parlament can talk for more than 5 minutes cause they didn’t like obstructions from other parties to fight their program. They don’t even talk to unions and take interviews anymore about topics which mostly concerns the people.
It’s as bad as it sounds…
The solution is not more fuel efficient or fuel alternative cars, it’s the replacement of cars entirely (where reasonable). But you can’t shock that, because it requires infrastructure which literally doesn’t exist in much of North America, and is severely lacking in the rest of it.
We used to have good public transit but it was demonized and dismantled by car manufacturers. There is a bus that runs near my house but the closest I can get to work is still several miles away and I cant use it to get home because of how early it stops running. Train service recently improved to twice a week but still has limited stops.
Over half of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck. Between sky high rent/mortgage, student loans and medical bills, getting a new car is often unrealistic.
The point of expensive fuel is to stop manufacturers from making gas guzzling monstrosities. If fuel was $2 a litre would you be looking for a tiny-penis truck or a more efficient car?
Manufacturers follow the market
I drive around a country the size of Texas in a 1.2 litre hatchback and have no issues with that
Fuel just went over $3 a litre here.
Apparently the small dick energy of ute owners offsets the cost, they’ve never been more popular
Electric cars will become cheaper and hit the used car market once they become more common.
There already is a used market. Old evs with ranges between 75 and 100 miles can be had for less than $10k. For any homeowners already driving 2 cars, using one of these for daily commutes and local errands makes a lot of sense.
I’m sorry but I don’t want used ev. Battery will be degraded and buying new one is like buying a new cheap petrol car. If you don’t buy new one, you’ll have a shity range, which is already shity and heavily exaggerated by manufacturers, especially in high and low temps which are for example in Europe where I live almost 50% time of whole year. There is no infrastructure to charge ev cars and it’s decades away from being build, especially in my country.
If evs should be reality it has to have range at least 600km in worst temp scenario while being able to charge fully in 15 mins tops.
And even than I wouldn’t want it. I wanna have car which I can easily repair myself, without electrical shenanigans and bulshit like changing whole fcking light instead of just bulb, or having to ask to access software of my car, jeez…
I don’t want my car to have displays instead of buttons. I don’t even understand how that can be legal, when you obviously don’t watch the road to adjust fcking air conditioning. Or that stupid hold the line function which has car in my work. You can’t even turn that shit off and it steers instead of you. When I overtake a cyclists it’s a living nightmare and not talking about state of roads which have like multiples lines over and the cars is fcked.
I’m 29 and I don’t want to have over-electroniseid everything…
Which country is that?
Just the other day I got a taxi trip in a Tesla, with a guy showing photos of how he’d gone from Spain to Ukraine with a bunch of other Tesla taxi drivers to bring back some refugees. That sounds like he could get a recharge, across most of Europe?
So much wrong with this one.
But on the “i can’t afford” one. Yes, you might not be able to afford a new electric car. They are a luxury still and will probably stay that until we see enough teslas on the used market.
But you also dont have to buy a new car. if you can not afford your car right now and doubling the gas prices will worsen that condition then something entirely different is wrong.
Might be multiple things. Either you are American and you live in a nice-ish house in the suburbs: Your politicians and the car industry have failed you for a long time. I would say go vote but i doubt that even a fully dem senate and ruling party would change a lot.
Might be that you don’t earn enough money at all. This one is a bad one, because it means your politicians have failed you deeply. Agin, voting might change it a bit to the better but if you cannot demand a bigger wage to fund your only way to get to work then you’re out of luck.
Even if you could buy an electric now, it would not save you any money if you don’t or can’t change something else drastically.
Drive less, earn more, move closer to work if that’s even possible.
I get what you’re saying, but I’m not sure you realize just how much that would hurt people. Europe is much more densely concentrated and has far better public transit options. Many parts of the US are extremely rural. My nearest grocery store is a 30 minute drive away. There are no stores in walking distance at all. There are no sidewalks. There are no busses, trains, or cabs in my area, and that is not wildly uncommon.
If costs of gas doubled, at least without viable alternatives, it would absolutely bankrupt people. And it would disproportionately impact poor people in rural areas where it’s very common to commute to work 30-60 minutes of driving is a common commute. While it varies by state, US federal minimum wage in the US is $7.25/hour. Many people commute for work, and an hour drive one way is also not uncommon.
Let’s take 7.25 an hour x 40 hours = $290 before taxes.
We’ll keep it simple and say a person uses only 1 gallon of gas per day to get to and from work which, at $8 a gallon x 5 days a week = $40. Just that travel to and from work and no other travel at all (or maintenance on the vehicle) would be 14% of pre-tax income.
So many things need to change so I understand the perspective, but I think it’s really important to consider the widespread impact. Obviously the US has a lot of issues contributing to this situation.
petrol is about 1.5x the price in Australia compared to America with similar geographies to deal with
Geography maybe, but the population distribution is still quite different.
yeah, if anything we are more spread out in australia
I agree but will counter, maybe people should be prioritizing buying motorcycles and heated jackets over trucks and suvs that make up 80% of new sales. I think gas price should be based off mpg MORE than now. If you get 15 mpg than you pay 15 per gallon. Get 30mpg you pay 7 per gallon. Only exceptions are for vehicles used for operational work, not commuting.
Tell me you’ve never been to the US without telling me.
I’m an avid motorcycle rider. I’ve been riding for over 20 years. I’ve ridden in all sorts of weather. I once had to lie in a muddy ditch next to my harley while the tornado went by. More than once I’ve ridden 30 miles (48.6 kilometers for those who can’t multiply by 1.62) in the snow.
The issue is, snow, ice, and tornadoes aren’t good for most people on a motorcycle. I’m one of the few completely crazy people who does ride in all weather. But the US is a place with some pretty crazy weather, and many parts of the country str too cold or too icy to ride in for half the year. So even if we collectively bought a Grom and a nice riding suit with a heated vest, most people couldn’t ride it for a big chunk of the year.
A much better suggestion, until we can get some sort of public transport, is small cars, but every time someone makes a small economy car in the US, most people act like it’s an affront to their very testicles and they spend a weirdly large chunk of their time complaining about said cars, even if they dont own one. For examples, see opinions on: Toyota Prius, Chevy Spark, Mitsubishi Mirage.
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I mean that was exactly my point. I lived in denver and ny and I dont ride under 35 degrees F unless its only 5 min. Going careless wasnt my real reccomendation, but its a huge answer for a huge swath of population. I live in socal now and its trucks and suvs as far as the eye can see. And If even this crowd is going to downvote me, then its even more dire than I realized. People are crazy car centric, and its irresponsible way to live
That’s a fair counter, and I definitely agree there are many things that could be changed to improve the situation.I also think the US needs to move away from large vehicles, and it’s a huge problem that so many people are purchasing vehicles that get poor mileage and are ultimately bad for the environment.
I would argue though that there are some issues with the motorcycle suggestion. First, in many areas of the country it’s only feasible to ride a motorcycle about half the year due to weather. In the New England area, it’s only feasible in the summer. Otherwise, the snow and ice make it far too dangerous. Plus, if you have a family/children, then you also need some kind of car, so now you have to buy, register, inspect, and maintain two vehicles. There are also costs for getting a motorcycle endorsement on your license and an additional fee each time you renew your license to maintain that motorcycle endorsement on your license.
The problem with the “pay per mpg” would be older cars. I used to drive a very old car with very bad gas mileage. I also lived in that car. There’s risk of disproportionately impacting people with low income. Of course, that could be countered based off the the year of the car, or income, or some other thing – but I’m sure there would be loopholes and other issues there.
Anyways, really interesting topic to consider. Thanks for the respectful discourse!
Good reply, id fully support the exception for those living in vehicles and having the cost decay over time like registration does.
As for the cold, thats only a part of the country for a part of the year. I can buy 2 reliable cars and a motorcycle for the cost of 1 new luxury truck. People want new big and flashy to feel self important, ita sad. But I guess that acceptance of debt is what keeps America going now idk.
In that case I hope your health care is reformed to imitate what we have here.
they do have some private healthcare dont they
I wouldn’t wish that on anybody it sucks to pay a lot of money for gas
Canada just north of the border it’s about $1.92/L where I live.
I hope your country multiples in size to match the US and you can see what it’s like to have to drive long distances.
They do, it’s called the European Union and they have publicly-funded means of transportation through it. They can freely move through the borders of any nation in the Schengen Zone without need of a passport. You can travel through most of Europe by many different means besides automobiles.
Our country is just too stubborn and individualistic to ever elect politicians that would see through the time and money required for the types of projects needed to make the US no longer reliant on cars and trucks. On top of that, it could take decades. Say if we ever did, it would just get shut down when the next conservative blow hard convinces enough people that it isn’t worth it.
Long term projects like that just aren’t in the cards for the US any more.
Yeah, no shit. Not surprised no one here grasps concepts that aren’t spelled out in blinking neon but my comment wasn’t glorifying American waste. It was mocking their self-centered and needlessly dickish bs. But go off.
fucking clown 🤡 I just can’t aaaaa
Fuck off. I hope the price gets cut in half. It’s expensive enough here
You have 3x higher average yearly salary than in the czech republic while having 2x lower price of gas/petrol. And we are considered developed country… You have nothing to complain about. Get yourself 1.2 litre hatchback like I have…
I would ban every engine above 2l in citizen commute cars cause there is no need for more power.